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Old 03-14-2011, 11:09 AM   #1
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hELP! Amperage needed for 220V motors


I am buying a 12" JOINTER that has been wired for single phase that was a 3 phase at one time. It now has two motor which are wired separately (pigtailed) with this specification i found from other site based on model#
HDN56MRB34D51 1- or 2-Phase AC
5 HP, 240V, 15A (5.1KW) "compressor duty" motor, 3450 RPM

so bieng that that are both pulling 15 amps would a 20 amp be correct or need 30amp as thats double load? from what is described there is no internal fuseblock. the owner previously had a old dryer cord on it which I wold have to switch legally as the machine is not 120/240 its straght 240. I just want to make sure I am juicing it properly.

He said something about a magnetic switch..i dont know what that does withthe motors or if it was for the orginal 3 phase power.

Thanks in advance
Rob
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hELP! Amperage needed for 220V motors-china-003.jpg   hELP! Amperage needed for 220V motors-china-004.jpg  


Last edited by 1488rob; 03-15-2011 at 03:10 PM. Reason: JOINTER NOT PLANER
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Old 03-14-2011, 11:23 AM   #2
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hELP! Amperage needed for 220V motors


I am a bit confused here but will attempt to give an answer based on what I can gleen from you writings.

There are (2) motors - pigtailed????

I doubt very much that these motors will run simultaneously so the rating you need to pay attention to would be the 240V rating at 15 amps---so then a 20 amp circuit would suffice.

Not sure how you can have (2) motors pigtailed together, a picture would be helpful on that on.

The magnetic switch you refer to, sounds to be the original 460 Volt starter for the planer, which could still be wired in the starter loop, but not sure without pictures.

Mark

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Old 03-14-2011, 12:03 PM   #3
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hELP! Amperage needed for 220V motors


OK this is waht I know. One motor he can see and the wires to it..the other is covered but appears to be the same motor. the power splits to both motors so iwould take this is pigtailed. I sure hope so or otherwise if the hots are getting split thats only 120 going to a 240! HE is supposed to call me bakc later had to get to work. I had to hunt down specs on the motor. all he could tell me was chicago electrc..which might be the same as harbor frieght motors. I found specs form an EC forum. another page is a safety liseng and does have a china name.. I am just wondering since he has a 30amp plug why 30 amps? I guess it willonly draw what it can.

Do motors burn out from toomuch power or just not enough?

Whats weird isfrom what I have read on woodforums the 3phase would jumpstart..where as singlephanse have capacitor..if this doesnt have a capacitor ran inline am I introuble?
Oh and most sparky talk is greek BTW..im mechanical trade
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Old 03-14-2011, 12:07 PM   #4
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hELP! Amperage needed for 220V motors


You only have single phase at home, and by oversizing a circuit, only burns up you wallet, not the motor.

And you are correct, if it is 3 phase and you want to run this machine at home you will have to change the motor, but you did mention 240 volt, which is a single phase residential voltage.

Mark
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Old 03-14-2011, 01:22 PM   #5
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hELP! Amperage needed for 220V motors


Electrical inspector stopped by very nice fellow fortunately, and its all about the nameplate yet 5hp by NEC is 28 amps yet the motor says 5hp 15amps and YES they must run together because it is a JOINTER..there is only one thing to run on a jointer and thats the blade. there is no powerfeed rollers etc so if BOTH are running it would still be 15amp supposedly? i would still go 12gauge 20 ampcircuit

I put jointer in big letters because i screwed up in first post and put planer
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Old 03-14-2011, 01:26 PM   #6
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hELP! Amperage needed for 220V motors


Ok sounds like you are all set, good luck with your new joiner, keeps your fingers clear.

Mark
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Old 03-14-2011, 02:14 PM   #7
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hELP! Amperage needed for 220V motors


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackofall1 View Post
..., but you did mention 240 volt, which is a single phase residential voltage.
"240V" is NOT just a residential single phase voltage. There IS 120/240v 3-phase.
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Old 03-14-2011, 02:19 PM   #8
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hELP! Amperage needed for 220V motors


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Originally Posted by Speedy Petey View Post
"240V" is NOT just a residential single phase voltage. There IS 120/240v 3-phase.

Excuse me let be rephase......ah rephrase......typical residential voltage.

But thanks for your insite and correction Speedy

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Old 03-14-2011, 04:58 PM   #9
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hELP! Amperage needed for 220V motors


Actually noone has answered my question. the jointer is wired witha bigass guessing 10gauge industrail cord, dryer size with a clothesdryer plug on it. I know now that is not a "legal" plug as that is for 120/240 but if both motors are pulling 15 amps at the SAME TIME will i need to step up to 30 amp breaker OR run 10 gauge wire instead of 12? I know from living in an RV that my extra extensioncord for a oil heater gets hot from all that current even though its a 14 gauge cord not 16.

I really do not understand load and where my differences matter. i dont want to burn up my motors let alone my house(to be) !

So anyway this wanst for debates about 3 phase..the only reason i mentioned that was that it was a conversion..how well i dont know, and whether that was proper displacement for such a heavy machine. this si a big boy 638lbs and the cutterhead is 3" diameter! (usuall 6 or 8" only 1 1/4"D)
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Old 03-14-2011, 05:03 PM   #10
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hELP! Amperage needed for 220V motors


Excuse us, I thought since you had talked to the nice electrical inspector you would have got you answers from him. I personally am still not fully understanding whether you have two motors pulling a total of 15 amps or 2 motors pulling 15 amps each.

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Old 03-14-2011, 10:59 PM   #11
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hELP! Amperage needed for 220V motors


What I meant if 3 phase is off the topic, only a reference to the power it once took, tryiing to keep this less confusing and not end up into a totallydifferent thread whit happens allthe timeon forums

Actuall I did say in the OP that there are TWO motors split off of cord,not series,however its pigtailed,only going by description as I said I hope so as they are 240 not 120 v motors. I put the listing in OP also 220V 15AMP even the model number so I dont see where that is confused, it is listed as 5hp but that does not match normal 5 HP because in NEC code 5HP is 28amp

I donot have the jointer yet so the inspector could not give me exact information, what i got form him was no neutral just ground
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Old 03-14-2011, 11:53 PM   #12
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hELP! Amperage needed for 220V motors


Check the name plate on the motors to see if one or both are 3 phase. It sounds like you have a 3 phase machine that is using another motor as a phase converter. If this is the case, the motor used as a converter will never run at full load and you will need the advice of some one with experience with this setup.
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Old 03-15-2011, 04:18 AM   #13
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hELP! Amperage needed for 220V motors


This part can get tricky if not pay attetion to this first thing first you mention compressor duty motour however that is special size and it is NOT a real horsepower rating they inflated somehow what.,,

That motor you describe that more like 2 or 3 HP the most due the 15 amp @ 240 volts 1

The main thing is you look at the main jointer motour first and get that nameplate first then deal with second motour in a bit we will need the nameplate info on that one first if that is legit triphase motour and the second motour act like phase shifter or phase converter.

This part is only with legit triphase motour only if you have legit single phase motor then discharge my above pargraph.

So therefore please post the photo if you can that will really help us alot on this one.

Merci.
Marc
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Old 03-15-2011, 03:14 PM   #14
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hELP! Amperage needed for 220V motors


i just added pics to show what s going on..just got the machine. the motors are tandempulleyed and the other motor has a second pulley to blade. that box is supposedly a magnetic switch which is connected to the on/off swich and you can see from there to power goes to a junctiion box ans splits off to the motors.. so power to switch to junction box to motors

the pics are on the OP
Notivcr the voltage and INPUT 3.1 kw..thats gotta help at 220v at 3.1KW

Last edited by 1488rob; 03-15-2011 at 03:16 PM.
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Old 03-15-2011, 03:20 PM   #15
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hELP! Amperage needed for 220V motors


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Originally Posted by frenchelectrican View Post
This part can get tricky if not pay attetion to this first thing first you mention compressor duty motour however that is special size and it is NOT a real horsepower rating they inflated somehow what.,,

That motor you describe that more like 2 or 3 HP the most due the 15 amp @ 240 volts 1

The main thing is you look at the main jointer motour first and get that nameplate first then deal with second motour in a bit we will need the nameplate info on that one first if that is legit triphase motour and the second motour act like phase shifter or phase converter.

This part is only with legit triphase motour only if you have legit single phase motor then discharge my above pargraph.

So therefore please post the photo if you can that will really help us alot on this one.

Merci.
Marc
If you can se from pics..the motors look idientical and the power runs from the same junction box so i doubt the one is 3 phase. the nameplate is on back side. its raining too . I might try to get a mechanics mirror and take a pic off that and see if i can blow it up and reverse it later

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