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Old 01-31-2011, 08:48 PM   #1
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Help - Adding a third outlet off of 1 outlet, shallow box so no pigtailing


So I want to add an outlet off of another outlet. The outlet that I am trying to use as the power source already has an outlet coming off of it. In other words all 4 side screws are in use. I understand I could pigtail all the outlets but it is a shallow box because of the prozimity of the paneled wall to the concrete basement wall. In other word it has to be a shallow box and there is no room for pigtaied wires with wire nut connectors. Is it acceptable for me to double up the wires on set of the side screws or is there another solution. Thanks in advance!

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Old 01-31-2011, 08:49 PM   #2
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Help - Adding a third outlet off of 1 outlet, shallow box so no pigtailing


sorry mispelled proximity

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Old 01-31-2011, 08:55 PM   #3
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Help - Adding a third outlet off of 1 outlet, shallow box so no pigtailing


Not you cant "double up" wires. Those screws are rated for 1 wire per terminal. Dont even THINK about using the push in connections unless you want to burn your house down.

"Pass through" wiring is not proper wiring practice per the 2011 code.

"pass through" is when you just cut the insulation off the wire and wrap it around the screw and keep going with the wire. Commonly found with ground wires.

What you might want to try is to replace the box with a 2 gang box, and blank the one side out to use as a junction area for wirenuts and pigtails. This is what I would personally do.

Then just get something like a Pass and Seymour TP-138 (color) wall plate to cover it!
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Old 01-31-2011, 09:04 PM   #4
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Help - Adding a third outlet off of 1 outlet, shallow box so no pigtailing


Thank you. I greatly appreciate the do nots! That makes sense and I am sure that is the way I will go unless someone else has a better, safe, and legal way.
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Old 01-31-2011, 09:13 PM   #5
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Help - Adding a third outlet off of 1 outlet, shallow box so no pigtailing


IF you have a table saw or chop saw I can add to this. Switch the box out for a normal or deep j box. Once you get the new box in you have all the room you could ever need along with the box out of the wall some. Cut some flat stock about a inch wide and run it around the electrical box. That way is looks cool and then your plate cover is flush.
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Old 02-01-2011, 08:38 AM   #6
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Help - Adding a third outlet off of 1 outlet, shallow box so no pigtailing


Quote:
Originally Posted by LyonsElecSupply View Post
"Pass through" wiring is not proper wiring practice per the 2011 code.

"pass through" is when you just cut the insulation off the wire and wrap it around the screw and keep going with the wire. Commonly found with ground wires.
Do you have a code reference for this?
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Old 02-01-2011, 09:08 AM   #7
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Help - Adding a third outlet off of 1 outlet, shallow box so no pigtailing


2011 NEC Handbook, I believe there is an explanation as to the expectation of the NEC in regards to wiring practices.

Should be right at the beginning of section 3. Even comes complete with pictures and such.

Basically you have to wire devices clockwise and almost in a closed question mark form. (Around the terminal that is)
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Old 02-01-2011, 09:27 AM   #8
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Help - Adding a third outlet off of 1 outlet, shallow box so no pigtailing


Quote:
Originally Posted by LyonsElecSupply View Post
2011 NEC Handbook, I believe there is an explanation as to the expectation of the NEC in regards to wiring practices.

Should be right at the beginning of section 3. Even comes complete with pictures and such.

Basically you have to wire devices clockwise and almost in a closed question mark form. (Around the terminal that is)
The illustrations and explanations in the handbook are not part of the NEC. The illustrations you refer to are from the UL. The NEC makes no mention of "pass through" wiring or its prohibition.
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Old 02-01-2011, 11:59 AM   #9
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Help - Adding a third outlet off of 1 outlet, shallow box so no pigtailing


Quote:
Originally Posted by LyonsElecSupply View Post
Not you cant "double up" wires. Those screws are rated for 1 wire per terminal. Dont even THINK about using the push in connections unless you want to burn your house down.

"Pass through" wiring is not proper wiring practice per the 2011 code.

"pass through" is when you just cut the insulation off the wire and wrap it around the screw and keep going with the wire. Commonly found with ground wires.

What you might want to try is to replace the box with a 2 gang box, and blank the one side out to use as a junction area for wirenuts and pigtails. This is what I would personally do.

Then just get something like a Pass and Seymour TP-138 (color) wall plate to cover it!
replacing a 2 gang with a 3 gang in my home to run some 14-2 for some recessed lighting I'm putting in and discovered that the two existing switches were wired this way in a 3 way switch. I was not happy. The house is brand new.
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Old 02-01-2011, 01:04 PM   #10
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Help - Adding a third outlet off of 1 outlet, shallow box so no pigtailing


Quote:
Originally Posted by HouseHelper View Post
The illustrations and explanations in the handbook are not part of the NEC. The illustrations you refer to are from the UL. The NEC makes no mention of "pass through" wiring or its prohibition.

Irregardless, most fires start from poor connections at switches and receptacles due to wiring practices such as passing through.

So if its part of code its alright to do it?

I dont think so.

I misread it, and yes it is not specifically in the code per se, however the code does address poor connections and the dangers of such.
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Old 02-01-2011, 01:37 PM   #11
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Help - Adding a third outlet off of 1 outlet, shallow box so no pigtailing


There is a Carlon old work shallow box that has extra space which slips under the drywall so to speak. I think Carlon's # is B117RSW and they have it at big box stores, at least in my area they do. I think that might give enough space for pigtailing... I haven't obviously run the calculations, but I used it at an outlet where I needed the space for the ground pigtail.

http://electrical.hardwarestore.com/...ox-620176.aspx
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Old 02-01-2011, 02:57 PM   #12
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Help - Adding a third outlet off of 1 outlet, shallow box so no pigtailing


Thanks for the replys. LyonsElecSupply I have a question. The guy at the big box hardware store that I went to (atually 2 guys and 1 guy claimed he was an electrical engineer, why he would be working at a big box store is beyond me) told me that it would be fine to use the push in connections in the back of the receptacle and then you screw down as the receptacle is rated at 15 amps. I went ahead and got the 2 gang shallow box as you suggested and made my pigtails but apparently I have a loose connection because nothing works. Are the guys at the hardware store wrong? It sure would be easier to just use the push in and screw down slots in the receptacle and with my wiring abiltiy the connections would most likely be better. But your warning earlier said not to use the push in's unless I want to burn my house down. Obviously I want to do it right and safe. Probably should have called a professional and still might but after investing all this time I would really like to complete myself. Thanks again and sorry for dumb questions.
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Old 02-01-2011, 02:58 PM   #13
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Help - Adding a third outlet off of 1 outlet, shallow box so no pigtailing


Saw those shallow "behind the sheetrock" boxes in Lowes the other day, this seems like a great use for them.
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Old 02-01-2011, 03:02 PM   #14
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Help - Adding a third outlet off of 1 outlet, shallow box so no pigtailing


It would be Walden but I only have 1 3/4 inches to deal with. I saw them too but they are too deep. Do you have any answer to my question I posed to Lyons? Thanks
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Old 02-01-2011, 03:15 PM   #15
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Help - Adding a third outlet off of 1 outlet, shallow box so no pigtailing


You could install a 4" square box that is 1 1/2" deep and install a plaster ring of the proper depth to bring the face flush.

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