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Old 03-26-2009, 06:55 AM   #1
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Help with 20A 240v receptacle



I had one of these in an outlet under a window in my house. I removed the wire all the way back to a junction box and pulled it out. Best I can tell, there isn't actually anything else on this circuit. It's yellow #12 romex from the panel to the junction box and then it continued on as a grey fabric-style cable to the outlet -- that was the section of wiring that I ripped out.

I'm assuming this is just a standard 20 amp circuit so I could potentially tie in new romex and use the empty outlet box for a normal outlet on a 20amp circuit now right?

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Old 03-26-2009, 07:41 AM   #2
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Help with 20A 240v receptacle


Yes, all you need to do is remove the white from the breaker and attach it to the neutral bus, remove the black tape on the white. You can replace the breaker with a single pole and install a blocker if you want. You need to continue this circuit with 12 awg if you keep it at 20 amp. You need a 15 amp breaker if you extend it with 14.

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Old 03-26-2009, 08:01 AM   #3
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Help with 20A 240v receptacle


Jay;
What drawing app are you using to create your drawings?
Looks really professional

FW
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Old 03-26-2009, 09:15 AM   #4
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Help with 20A 240v receptacle


I stole it off another website. haha
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Old 07-07-2011, 09:56 AM   #5
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Help with 20A 240v receptacle


Per the 2008 Code changes, you can Not us a Neutral (White) wire to carry power to device. Per the new code changes, they are making us run 12/3 Romes/MC wire which has a Red (Hot), Black (Hot), White (Neutral), and ground in it. Just a heads up if this is getting inspected!
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Old 07-07-2011, 10:19 AM   #6
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Help with 20A 240v receptacle


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Originally Posted by garber2007 View Post
Per the 2008 Code changes, you can Not us a Neutral (White) wire to carry power to device. Per the new code changes, they are making us run 12/3 Romes/MC wire which has a Red (Hot), Black (Hot), White (Neutral), and ground in it. Just a heads up if this is getting inspected!
That is TOTALLY incorrect. You are referring to 120/240 volt circuits that require an insulated neutral.
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Old 07-07-2011, 11:08 AM   #7
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Help with 20A 240v receptacle


I apologize for not making my self clear. When you run a 240V circuit, we are not allowed to use the Neutral as a current carry conductor, even if we tape up the wire with black tape, to show that it is not a neutral. Is that better, brric?
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Old 07-07-2011, 11:12 AM   #8
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Help with 20A 240v receptacle


Quote:
Originally Posted by garber2007 View Post
Per the 2008 Code changes, you can Not us a Neutral (White) wire to carry power to device. Per the new code changes, they are making us run 12/3 Romes/MC wire which has a Red (Hot), Black (Hot), White (Neutral), and ground in it. Just a heads up if this is getting inspected!
Could you please cite the NEC article that prevents this? The white conductor is allowed to be re-identified as a hot in a cable type assembly.
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Old 07-07-2011, 11:18 AM   #9
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Help with 20A 240v receptacle


Quote:
Originally Posted by garber2007 View Post
I apologize for not making my self clear. When you run a 240V circuit, we are not allowed to use the Neutral as a current carry conductor, even if we tape up the wire with black tape, to show that it is not a neutral. Is that better, brric?
See post #8. It is not a neutral to begin with.
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Old 07-07-2011, 11:41 AM   #10
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Help with 20A 240v receptacle


Quote:
Originally Posted by garber2007 View Post
I apologize for not making my self clear. When you run a 240V circuit, we are not allowed to use the Neutral as a current carry conductor, even if we tape up the wire with black tape, to show that it is not a neutral. Is that better, brric?
The neutral is a current carrying conductor. It is returning the unbalanced current from the ungrounded legs.
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Old 07-07-2011, 11:54 AM   #11
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Help with 20A 240v receptacle


Well, this conversation is getting pretty interesting...I am going to set down with the Code Book tonight. I work for an commercial/industrial/residential contractor and the guys I work with have recently been telling me that I cannot use the neutral for any thing other than a neutral conductor because of the code. I am also not sure if this is something that is coming out in the 2011 version, or not. Let me know if you guys see anything that has changed in 2011 if you get a chance. Look forward to reporting if I am wrong or not tomorrow or the next day! Got to get back to work know! Thanks for debating with me about this!
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Old 07-07-2011, 01:02 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garber2007 View Post
Well, this conversation is getting pretty interesting...I am going to set down with the Code Book tonight. I work for an commercial/industrial/residential contractor and the guys I work with have recently been telling me that I cannot use the neutral for any thing other than a neutral conductor because of the code. I am also not sure if this is something that is coming out in the 2011 version, or not. Let me know if you guys see anything that has changed in 2011 if you get a chance. Look forward to reporting if I am wrong or not tomorrow or the next day! Got to get back to work know! Thanks for debating with me about this!
We are not talking about a neutral. The point is a 240 volt circuit may be supplied by a cable assembly consisting of a black and white conductor when the white conductor is reidentified as a non-grounded conductor. NEC 2008 Article 200.7(C)(1).
NEC 2011 Article 200.7(c)(1).

Last edited by brric; 07-07-2011 at 01:05 PM.
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Old 07-07-2011, 09:07 PM   #13
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Help with 20A 240v receptacle


You must be talking with a bunch of Canadians. Up there, they have to use different romex that has a black and red in it (no white)for 240 VOlt circuits....
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Old 07-07-2011, 09:14 PM   #14
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You must be talking with a bunch of Canadians. Up there, they have to use different romex that has a black and red in it (no white)for 240 VOlt circuits....
Could be. Says he's from Ohio.
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Old 07-11-2011, 06:21 AM   #15
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Help with 20A 240v receptacle


Guys, this post was from 2009!

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