Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 06-10-2008, 08:20 PM   #16
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 8
Rewards Points: 10
Default

having trouble with the gfci tripping


You do not wire the refe to a gfci in your kitchen.. What the problem is you should not put one in the garage. I have not done my update yet but you would not wire a washing machine to a GFCI,you would use a single recp. I'll have to check my code but I think you are wrong.


Last edited by pothiel; 06-10-2008 at 08:41 PM.
pothiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2008, 09:29 PM   #17
Power Gen/RS Engineer
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Oak Park, Illinois
Posts: 751
Rewards Points: 500
Default

having trouble with the gfci tripping


Quote:
Originally Posted by pothiel View Post
I'll have to check my code but I think you are wrong.
<-- Picture of Jimmy laying next to his chair laughing and spitting up.
__________________
Well, now, there's what's right and what's right and never the twain shall meet.
BigJimmy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2008, 10:23 PM   #18
Electrician
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Connecticut, Litchfield
Posts: 2,015
Rewards Points: 1,000
Default

having trouble with the gfci tripping


Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJimmy View Post
<-- Picture of Jimmy laying next to his chair laughing and spitting up.
Like I have nothing better to do than make stuff up all night.
chris75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2008, 10:55 PM   #19
Electrician
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Connecticut, Litchfield
Posts: 2,015
Rewards Points: 1,000
Default

having trouble with the gfci tripping


Quote:
Originally Posted by pothiel View Post
I have not done my update yet but you would not wire a washing machine to a GFCI,you would use a single recp.
If the washing machine was located in a bathroom it would be GFCI protected.
chris75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2008, 12:25 AM   #20
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,796
Rewards Points: 1,018
Default

having trouble with the gfci tripping


I have found also that depending upon installation technique (backstab vs. screwdown), the backstab can handle less current and more likely to melt the outlet.
handy man88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2008, 06:33 AM   #21
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 8
Rewards Points: 10
Default

having trouble with the gfci tripping


I'm not saying you make stuff up. I just know that is not a good idea to put this kind of an appliance on a GFCI. Now an acfi is another story. GCFI have there place.
pothiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2008, 06:55 AM   #22
Electrical Contractor
 
wirenut1110's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Chester, VA.
Posts: 1,049
Rewards Points: 500
Send a message via AIM to wirenut1110
Default

having trouble with the gfci tripping


Quote:
Originally Posted by handy man88 View Post
I have found also that depending upon installation technique (backstab vs. screwdown), the backstab can handle less current and more likely to melt the outlet.
I believe this is just because a back stabbed connection eventually becomes a loose connection. Which causes arcing which increases heat and so on. Which is why I never do it, won't let my people do it and never recommend it. Makes for an easy service call though.
wirenut1110 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2008, 06:55 AM   #23
When is fishing season?
 
CowboyAndy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 613
Rewards Points: 500
Default

having trouble with the gfci tripping


Quote:
Originally Posted by pothiel View Post
I'm not saying you make stuff up. I just know that is not a good idea to put this kind of an appliance on a GFCI. Now an acfi is another story. GCFI have there place.
Good idea or not, the 2008 NEC is requiring things like that to now be GFI protected. PERIOD.

With the NEC, you don't get to skirt by a code just because you don't think its a good idea... just like inspectors can't make up codes just because they think its a good idea.



Section 210.8 (A)
Ground-Fault Circuit Interrupter Protection

for Personnel; Dwelling Units.
The exception numbers (1) and (2) have been removed and GFCI protection is now required for most receptacles in unfinished basements and in garages and accessory buildings that have a floor located at or below grade level not intended as habitable rooms and limited to storage areas, work areas and areas of similar use.
(1) Receptacles that are not readily accessible
(2) A single receptacle or a duplex receptacle for two appliances located within dedicated space for each appliance that, in normal use, is not easily moved from one place to another and that is cord and plug connected in accordance with 400.7(A)(6), (A)(7) or (A)(8).
Analysis of Change:
Lack of “accessibility” of receptacles in these areas is no longer seen as reason to exempt them from the protection provided by ground-fault circuit interrupter protection for personnel. Similarly, the exception for receptacles in dedicated spaces for appliances in garages and accessory buildings has been removed. The expanded use of GFCI receptacles in these applications will necessitate boxes having larger capacity in some cases. Exception number (3) was retained for a receptacle supplying a permanently installed fire alarm or burglar alarm system.
__________________
I DON'T OWN MY HOUSE...
MY HOUSE OWNS ME!
CowboyAndy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2008, 07:40 AM   #24
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 8
Rewards Points: 10
Default

having trouble with the gfci tripping


There were a ton of changes in the 2008 NEC. Like I stated I have to check the code. Thanks for the input. Does this include the kitchen circuit for appliances.
pothiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2008, 07:50 AM   #25
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,796
Rewards Points: 1,018
Default

having trouble with the gfci tripping


Quote:
Originally Posted by wirenut1110 View Post
I believe this is just because a back stabbed connection eventually becomes a loose connection. Which causes arcing which increases heat and so on. Which is why I never do it, won't let my people do it and never recommend it. Makes for an easy service call though.
I think I read in the instructions that a 20 amp outlet can handle 12 gauge if you screw it down, but only 14 gauge (15 amp breaker) for back stab is recommended.

There is a lot less contact between the copper and the backstab method, in addition to the exposed copper touching the plastic casing.
handy man88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2008, 09:48 AM   #26
Power Gen/RS Engineer
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Oak Park, Illinois
Posts: 751
Rewards Points: 500
Default

having trouble with the gfci tripping


Quote:
Originally Posted by pothiel View Post
I just know that is not a good idea to put this kind of an appliance on a GFCI.
Please explain your reasoning.
__________________
Well, now, there's what's right and what's right and never the twain shall meet.
BigJimmy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2008, 11:55 AM   #27
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 8
Rewards Points: 10
Default

having trouble with the gfci tripping


Because when refe's age they sometimes trip GFCI circuits and you lose all of your food. The code states that you can not install circuits without GFCI in unfinished basements etc. etc. you still wire the refe to a non GFCI in the kitchen because of this. You may have no problems with a circuit that is GFCI protected but why take the chance of losing your hard earned money on a circuit that does not require this protection. GFCI are great for personal protection. They are not so good for washing machine refe's freezers etc. The code change is going to be for all future wiring and does not include existing circuits.
pothiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2008, 12:23 PM   #28
When is fishing season?
 
CowboyAndy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 613
Rewards Points: 500
Default

having trouble with the gfci tripping


Quote:
Originally Posted by pothiel View Post
Because when refe's age they sometimes trip GFCI circuits and you lose all of your food. The code states that you can not install circuits without GFCI in unfinished basements etc. etc. you still wire the refe to a non GFCI in the kitchen because of this. You may have no problems with a circuit that is GFCI protected but why take the chance of losing your hard earned money on a circuit that does not require this protection. GFCI are great for personal protection. They are not so good for washing machine refe's freezers etc. The code change is going to be for all future wiring and does not include existing circuits.
Of all the things that can be problematic, the refer is the least of my concerns, IMO. We open our refer many times a day. My wife and kids know to let me know if the light is not on. I will usually verify the fridge is running before replacing the bulb.

It is things like chest freezers that are more of a worry, as they get used less often.

But the bottom line is if a given area has adopted the 08 code and doesnt ammend that requirement, then you HAVE to use GFI on the fridge and freezers, etc.
__________________
I DON'T OWN MY HOUSE...
MY HOUSE OWNS ME!
CowboyAndy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2008, 12:42 PM   #29
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 8
Rewards Points: 10
Default

having trouble with the gfci tripping


The code states that in the kitchen it is not required. 210.8(A)6 GFCI for all counter top. The 2008 NEC handbook gives a better example.
pothiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2008, 01:42 PM   #30
Power Gen/RS Engineer
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Oak Park, Illinois
Posts: 751
Rewards Points: 500
Default

having trouble with the gfci tripping


Quote:
Originally Posted by wirenut1110 View Post
I believe this is just because a back stabbed connection eventually becomes a loose connection. Which causes arcing which increases heat and so on. Which is why I never do it, won't let my people do it and never recommend it. Makes for an easy service call though.
It's a rarity that I disagree w/ Wirenut and this is no exception. If the receptacle was listed for this type of connection, there is no way on earth that it would offer a higher resistance by design. The two types of connections are meant to be equivalent although most people who are "in the know" won't use them (back stabs).

__________________
Well, now, there's what's right and what's right and never the twain shall meet.
BigJimmy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Freezer tripping GFCI davidclements Appliances 57 08-13-2014 09:14 PM
New GFCI Breaker Tripping w/ 3-way Flourescents BigJimmy Electrical 8 12-29-2008 03:29 PM
Hot Tub GFCI Grounding Question kearnak1420 Electrical 3 04-30-2008 06:48 PM
20 Amp Breaker tripping with GFCI panhandlion Electrical 7 12-12-2007 09:59 PM
GFCI questions 5circles Electrical 4 11-05-2007 09:24 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.