Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 02-29-2012, 11:42 AM   #1
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 26
Share |
Default

Harmonics popping AFCI?


Okaaaaay 18 month old home about a month ago wife goes to bedroom and turns on 5yr old 42 Vizio while Im still watching 18 month old 50 Vizio in living room, virtually same scenario for 18 months, only this time the 15amp AFCI pops. Reset it and turn both sets & cable boxes back on and it pops again. Heres the investigation thus far:
Breaker holds load without both sets on. Either set on by itself no problem. Only constant seems to be that it pops only when both sets are on sometimes pops quickly other times it could be 10-30 minutes before popping. AFCI replaced and problem persists. Electrician says its the harmonics between the two sets that is causing the AFCI to think theres an arch and tripping the breaker solution is to split the circuit in two at a $400 cost. Electrical still under warranty but since circuit holds load it is good and not at fault thus not under warranty.
Ive run extension cords plugging both sets and respective cable boxes into 3 other 15 amp AFCI circuits and all is well only trips on original circuit. Any clue and/or solution? Thanks - Roy

royhill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2012, 11:58 AM   #2
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Hartfield VA
Posts: 25,600
Default

Harmonics popping AFCI?


Has anyone physically checked for loose connections?
What rooms are these in? If there not in bedrooms and only after someone has checked to make sure there is no arcing I see no reason why the braker can not be changed out to a reguler one of the same amperage.

joecaption is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to joecaption For This Useful Post:
royhill (02-29-2012)
Old 02-29-2012, 12:14 PM   #3
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 26
Default

Harmonics popping AFCI?


Quote:
Originally Posted by joecaption View Post
Has anyone physically checked for loose connections? At main box yes and AFCI was changed out, at outlets no - however same circiut pops using different outlets on same circuit plus when only one set is on there is no problem using any outlet.
What rooms are these in? Livingroom & master bedroom. If there not in bedrooms and only after someone has checked to make sure there is no arcing I see no reason why the braker can not be changed out to a reguler one of the same amperage.
Thanks for your reply - Roy
royhill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2012, 01:11 PM   #4
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Kansas
Posts: 81
Default

Harmonics popping AFCI?


Quote:
Originally Posted by joecaption View Post
Has anyone physically checked for loose connections?
What rooms are these in? If there not in bedrooms and only after someone has checked to make sure there is no arcing I see no reason why the braker can not be changed out to a reguler one of the same amperage.

Why would that be OK? If they were required when the house was built wouldn't they still be required?
M Engineer is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to M Engineer For This Useful Post:
jbfan (02-29-2012), Jim Port (02-29-2012)
Old 02-29-2012, 01:39 PM   #5
Electrical Contractor
 
rrolleston's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Granville, NY
Posts: 1,941
Send a message via AIM to rrolleston Send a message via Yahoo to rrolleston
Default

Harmonics popping AFCI?


Quote:
Originally Posted by joecaption View Post
Has anyone physically checked for loose connections?
What rooms are these in? If there not in bedrooms and only after someone has checked to make sure there is no arcing I see no reason why the braker can not be changed out to a reguler one of the same amperage.
That is not the correct way to address this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by royhill View Post
Thanks for your reply - Roy
I would plug the two TV's and everything into another AFCI circuit with the same amp rating and see if it kicks that AFCI. If it don't there is something wrong with the circuit you are having problems with. And the electrician should take a look at why it's happening.
__________________
With Electricity there is the right way to do it and the dead way. Just because it works does not make it safe.

Last edited by rrolleston; 03-01-2012 at 05:45 PM.
rrolleston is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2012, 01:42 PM   #6
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 26
Default

Harmonics popping AFCI?


Quote:
Originally Posted by rrolleston View Post
That is the correct way to address this.



I would plug the two TV's and everything into another AFCI circuit with the same amp rating and see if it kicks that AFCI. If it don't there is something wrong with the circuit you are having problems with. And the electrician should take a look at why it's happening.
Ive run extension cords plugging both sets and respective cable boxes into 3 other 15 amp AFCI circuits and all is well only trips on original circuit.
royhill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2012, 01:46 PM   #7
Electrical Contractor
 
rrolleston's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Granville, NY
Posts: 1,941
Send a message via AIM to rrolleston Send a message via Yahoo to rrolleston
Default

Harmonics popping AFCI?


Did the electrician actually remove covers of outlets and pull them out to make sure they did not have a bad connection or lose wire on a back stabbed outlet?
__________________
With Electricity there is the right way to do it and the dead way. Just because it works does not make it safe.
rrolleston is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2012, 01:46 PM   #8
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Kansas
Posts: 81
Default

Harmonics popping AFCI?


Quote:
Originally Posted by royhill View Post
Ive run extension cords plugging both sets and respective cable boxes into 3 other 15 amp AFCI circuits and all is well only trips on original circuit.
What else is there on that circuit? Things with a switching power supply like a printer or PC.
M Engineer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2012, 01:57 PM   #9
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 26
Default

Harmonics popping AFCI?


Quote:
Originally Posted by M Engineer View Post
What else is there on that circuit? Things with a switching power supply like a printer or PC.
Ceiling fan, Wii, surround sound receiver, digital picture frame, weather radio and alarm clock. However like I mentioned the only time it pops is when both sets are on at same time. Either on by itself (along with items listed) no problem and it doesn't matter if ceiling fan/light is on or off. When I plugged both sets (via extention cords) in the study which has same amp AFCI and also 2 printers, modem and other office equipment no problem. Thanks - Roy
royhill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2012, 02:05 PM   #10
Electrical Contractor
 
rrolleston's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Granville, NY
Posts: 1,941
Send a message via AIM to rrolleston Send a message via Yahoo to rrolleston
Default

Harmonics popping AFCI?


Quote:
Originally Posted by royhill View Post
Ceiling fan, Wii, surround sound receiver, digital picture frame, weather radio and alarm clock. However like I mentioned the only time it pops is when both sets are on at same time. Either on by itself (along with items listed) no problem and it doesn't matter if ceiling fan/light is on or off. When I plugged both sets (via extention cords) in the study which has same amp AFCI and also 2 printers, modem and other office equipment no problem. Thanks - Roy
When you explained this to your electrician he still said they should be put on a separate circuit for $400 cost.

I am surprised they wire a bedroom and living room on the same circuit in a newer home.
__________________
With Electricity there is the right way to do it and the dead way. Just because it works does not make it safe.
rrolleston is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to rrolleston For This Useful Post:
royhill (02-29-2012)
Old 02-29-2012, 02:17 PM   #11
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 26
Default

Harmonics popping AFCI?


Quote:
Originally Posted by rrolleston View Post
When you explained this to your electrician he still said they should be put on a separate circuit for $400 cost. After he changed out the AFCI and tested the load, which was fine, he said circuit was good since it held the load and problem was the harmonics between the sets so yep split the circuit on my dime .

I am surprised they wire a bedroom and living room on the same circuit in a newer home.
After what I read so am, but the fact is the problem isn't with the load.

I've voiced my disatification with the electrician's solution to builder and they are sending another company out tomorrow.
royhill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2012, 02:38 PM   #12
Electrical Contractor
 
rrolleston's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Granville, NY
Posts: 1,941
Send a message via AIM to rrolleston Send a message via Yahoo to rrolleston
Default

Harmonics popping AFCI?


Good luck. Hope they are able to resolve your issue.
__________________
With Electricity there is the right way to do it and the dead way. Just because it works does not make it safe.
rrolleston is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to rrolleston For This Useful Post:
royhill (02-29-2012)
Old 02-29-2012, 04:57 PM   #13
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 26
Default

Harmonics popping AFCI?


Thus far after some research and reading the replies here I haven't found anybody who ever heard of harmonics creating AFCIs trips. A phone call to Vizio resulted in "never heard of this problem" and an email inquiry to Vizio has yet to be answered.
royhill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2012, 04:23 AM   #14
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Cairns Australia
Posts: 2,310
Default

Harmonics popping AFCI?


Is it posssible that harmonic currents are causing the problem ?
YES IT IS !
But with out expensive test equipment, you will never know for sure !
But the answer is still the same, change it to a different circuit,
Or if the existing circuit can carry some more current safely
(only an electricain should make that assesment)
then you could go to a slightly bigger breaker.
How much other load is on that circuit as well ?
dmxtothemax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2012, 07:26 AM   #15
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 26
Default

Harmonics popping AFCI?


Quote:
Originally Posted by dmxtothemax View Post
Is it posssible that harmonic currents are causing the problem ?
YES IT IS ! Knowing almost nothing of electricity I need to ask - if it is harmonics -why only on one circuit and not the other 3 I tested with same 15 amp AFCI?
But with out expensive test equipment, you will never know for sure !
But the answer is still the same, change it to a different circuit,
Or if the existing circuit can carry some more current safely
(only an electricain should make that assesment)
then you could go to a slightly bigger breaker.
How much other load is on that circuit as well ?
Just a few radios & surround sound stereo receivers.

royhill is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Standard Circuit and AFCI? tomatoguy Electrical 5 02-19-2012 07:50 AM
AFCI breaker tripping encounter779 Electrical 8 06-11-2011 04:09 PM
Puzzled with AFCI nuisance trip ravi Electrical 11 06-06-2011 05:27 PM
Need help understanding GFCI & AFCI sheslostcontrol Electrical 14 11-01-2010 11:59 AM
Loose electrical outlets travishume Electrical 30 08-01-2008 07:21 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.