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Old 12-28-2009, 11:02 AM   #1
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Had a new electric range installed in my apartment - does this sound right?


Hi guys,

My wife and I just had a new range installed in our upstairs apartment, to replace a really old range (~40 yrs old "Modern Maid") that died.

The new range is a small Avanti 24" wide electric model. I have a few questions about the installation, which was done by the homeowner's son.

First, the old range was simply hardwired to the house's electric. There is a bundle of 3 wires coming out of the wall behind the range (red, black, and white), and they were simply connected directly to the old range. These were simply reconnected in the same fashion to the new range. Is this OK? I've heard that new ranges need to use plugs? Or, is this OK the way it is when simply replacing an old stove in the same location?

And second, I noticed that the new range is rated at 40A, according to the manual. The wiring for the range goes directly to the breaker box on the adjacent closet. There are 2 breakers for the range, each at 30A. Does this seem ok? Why would there be 2 breakers for the range? And, the 40A stove rating means the stove uses 40A at maximum when everything is on? The fact that it's split between 2 30A breakers should be OK?

Also, the plate on the bottom of the stove says 8050W, 240 volts.

Thanks! I don't own the home, but I still want to make sure that we are safe!

Thanks guys!!
Alex


Last edited by SAABturboDRIVR; 12-28-2009 at 12:29 PM. Reason: Additional info provided
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Old 12-28-2009, 01:14 PM   #2
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Had a new electric range installed in my apartment - does this sound right?


Two breakers are required for 240 volts. If the range requires 40 amp then you risk tripping the breaker. Likely only happen if you have all the burners and the oven on at the same time.
In order to up the breaker to 40 amps the cable would need to be changed to #8.

Not sure if the plug is a requirement.

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Old 12-28-2009, 01:17 PM   #3
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Had a new electric range installed in my apartment - does this sound right?


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Two breakers are required for 240 volts. If the range requires 40 amp then you risk tripping the breaker. Likely only happen if you have all the burners and the oven on at the same time.
In order to up the breaker to 40 amps the cable would need to be changed to #8.
Right. Acocrding to my calculations, all 4 burners, and the oven would have to be on at the same time in order to surpass 30A. So, am I correct to assume that this is not a safety issue? Just more of a possibly inconvenience of the breaker tripping if we maxed out the oven (which we wouldn't do anyway)? The 30A breaker would actually trip sooner than a 40A, so does that actually mean that we may be "safer"?

Thanks!!!
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Old 12-28-2009, 04:06 PM   #4
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Had a new electric range installed in my apartment - does this sound right?


Not a safety issue. The breaker will trip to protect the cable which is likely #10.
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Old 12-28-2009, 04:09 PM   #5
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Had a new electric range installed in my apartment - does this sound right?


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Not a safety issue. The breaker will trip to protect the cable which is likely #10.
Thanks Joe, you put my mind at ease!
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Old 12-29-2009, 07:01 PM   #6
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Had a new electric range installed in my apartment - does this sound right?


A plug is required. 30a breaker and wire is a poor install.
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Old 12-29-2009, 09:40 PM   #7
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Had a new electric range installed in my apartment - does this sound right?


For a rental, only a licensed electrician can do electrical work.

"Plug in cords" use stranded wire. These can bend easily like if you are moving the range out from time to time to clean those "pasta noodles" and whatever out from under the range.

Solid wire, like is used for building wiring, can't stand up to repeated bending like stranded wire can. For example take a coat hanger and bend the wire back and forth many times - it will eventually break.

Then if the installation instructions for the range say to use a 40 amp breaker, then that is what should be used along with the appropriate sized wire. I calculate 33.5 amps with the wattage figure you gave above from the name plate. And as said above, this would be for "Thanksgiving" when you have the whole works going at the same time.

BUT if you are getting a good deal on the rent and don't want to "make waves", I would suggest not moving the range and never using all the burners at the same time. I used to rent, so I know how it goes with landlords.

FYI - Following is a calculator where you can convert watts to amps. Use the calculator under "single phase"...
http://www.jobsite-generators.com/po...lculators.html
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Old 12-29-2009, 09:48 PM   #8
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Had a new electric range installed in my apartment - does this sound right?


I've never heard of a code reference that requires a plug be installed
It is better to have a plug IMO
The wire that is installed in my 1950 stove installation is stranded
Can't say as I have seen any that large that is solid wire. I'm sure it does exist

Yeah, Thanksgiving, Christmas & a big party is when you may kick the breaker off
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Old 12-30-2009, 09:43 AM   #9
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Had a new electric range installed in my apartment - does this sound right?


Thanks for all the replies guys.

So it sounds like the install is less than ideal in terms of being able to move the range and the annoyance of potentially tripping the breaker under super heavy loads.

However, it doesn't sound like this is a safety issue. That was really my primary concern. Since we're just renting and this is temporary, I just wanted to make sure that we are safe here, especially if my wife is home alone cooking. (So far no one has mentioned that this is a dangerous situation - if this is, I hope someone says so hehe).

Thanks again everyone!!

Last edited by SAABturboDRIVR; 12-30-2009 at 09:48 AM.
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Old 12-30-2009, 07:48 PM   #10
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Had a new electric range installed in my apartment - does this sound right?


............
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAABturboDRIVR View Post
Thanks for all the replies guys.

So it sounds like the install is less than ideal in terms of being able to move the range and the annoyance of potentially tripping the breaker under super heavy loads.

However, it doesn't sound like this is a safety issue. That was really my primary concern. Since we're just renting and this is temporary, I just wanted to make sure that we are safe here, especially if my wife is home alone cooking. (So far no one has mentioned that this is a dangerous situation - if this is, I hope someone says so hehe).

Saab,
If your main concern is safety, I would have the wire changed out and have a proper 40a circuit in place. Just because your calculations show that it shouldn't use all the available power except on Thanksgiving, doesn't make it safe. It was designed for a 40a circuit and you have a 30a. Everything is subject to fail. Think there's never been a bad breaker? Not that common but it happens. Do you want to place your wife's safety on some electrical part that is probably made in China nowadays? I didn't think so.
Mike Hawkins
(retired firefighter after 25 years)

Thanks again everyone!!
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Old 12-30-2009, 09:46 PM   #11
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Had a new electric range installed in my apartment - does this sound right?


Billy_Bob--Thanks for the link, it's filed. David
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Old 12-30-2009, 11:38 PM   #12
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Had a new electric range installed in my apartment - does this sound right?


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Saab,
If your main concern is safety, I would have the wire changed out and have a proper 40a circuit in place. Just because your calculations show that it shouldn't use all the available power except on Thanksgiving, doesn't make it safe. It was designed for a 40a circuit and you have a 30a. Everything is subject to fail. Think there's never been a bad breaker? Not that common but it happens. Do you want to place your wife's safety on some electrical part that is probably made in China nowadays? I didn't think so.
Mike Hawkins
(retired firefighter after 25 years)
Thanks for the response, Mike. Now I am a little worried, as I rent the place and already asked for and received a new range (granted it wasn't my fault, the old stove really did die). I don't want to make too many waves, but I guess we are entitled to safety. The apartment is legal and inspected by the state every year, so I wonder if it would even pass code.

The range's manual did list the power useage for each individual burner and heating element...and according to that the only way it would surpass 30A is if all 4 cooktop burners are on, and the oven is on bake. Not sure if that makes things any better. I do want to heed your advice, I want us to be safe. But also don't wan't to make too many waves considering we're renting and it's temporary. In my own home one day I will surely make sure everything is right. I think I'll definitely bring it up and see what happens. I would think the homeowners don't want their home at risk of burning down, so I guess they have a vested interest as well.
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Old 12-31-2009, 03:51 AM   #13
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Had a new electric range installed in my apartment - does this sound right?


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I've never heard of a code reference that requires a plug be installed

Check out Code articles 422.30, which requires a disconnect, a plug is the easy way to fill the requirement. 422.31, 422.32, 422.33 list other ways. In most installs (any good installs) cord and plug connected range is the way to go.
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Old 12-31-2009, 08:57 AM   #14
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Had a new electric range installed in my apartment - does this sound right?


Quote:
Originally Posted by SAABturboDRIVR View Post
Thanks for all the replies guys.

So it sounds like the install is less than ideal in terms of being able to move the range and the annoyance of potentially tripping the breaker under super heavy loads.

However, it doesn't sound like this is a safety issue. That was really my primary concern. Since we're just renting and this is temporary, I just wanted to make sure that we are safe here, especially if my wife is home alone cooking. (So far no one has mentioned that this is a dangerous situation - if this is, I hope someone says so hehe).

Thanks again everyone!!
Actually reading thru the code section Cowboy provided one of the 1st things it states is that the branch circuit shall not be less then the marked rating of the appliance
422.10(a)

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A plug is required. 30a breaker and wire is a poor install.
It seems from the code section that the breaker serves as the disconnect
I was looking for something that specifically requires cord & plug ?
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Old 01-02-2010, 04:12 AM   #15
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Had a new electric range installed in my apartment - does this sound right?


When I hear "range" I think of stove/oven with a cord so that you can pull it out. I don't think (ain't gonna look it up) that you are aloud to remove that cord, as this would be a violation of the manufactures specs.

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