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Old 12-05-2009, 02:57 PM   #16
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Grounding a Subpanel


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Originally Posted by Saturday Cowboy View Post
Not always wrong.
Did I say "..always wrong"? No I didn't.



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Lots of things. quite a few of the larger breakers say 60deg on them.
You may be right. I just have not seen anything rated for 60 deg in a very long time. Maybe I'll go out and check a few things.



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And yes I realise I don't know anything
YOUR words, not mine.


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Like your first comment that is a personal attack........
Seriously???

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Answers based on the 2008 & 2011 NEC.
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Old 12-05-2009, 03:00 PM   #17
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Grounding a Subpanel


My 100a breaker is stamped 40c = 104 F ??

You posted that #1 MUST be used
The section you qouted does not require you to use #1
There are 4 parts to the section, each has a different requirement
You can't pull one part out & state that is what must be met
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Old 12-05-2009, 03:01 PM   #18
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I can think of a few playgrounds that Cowboy may want to avoid if he thought that was an attack.
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Old 12-05-2009, 03:05 PM   #19
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The 40 degree marking that SD just referred to is the allowable temperature rise, not the terminal temperature rating.

Like SP I thought most newer terminals were 75 degree rated. Never seen a 90 degree one tho.
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Old 12-05-2009, 04:06 PM   #20
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Grounding a Subpanel


If we are talking about breaker panelboards it isn't just the breaker that terminal ratings must meet the wire insulation but the entire panelboard. That information is listed on the specifications sheet. If you want to put to rest and learn a bit this should square you away. Read it carefully and take some time doing so.

http://www.ulenvironment.com/global/...2006_Final.pdf


In particular line 36 about temperature ratings for the equipment as to what wire can be connected this will lead to the correct ampacity. In residential I don't know of any breakers that would not be slash rated 60/75 C in the last 25 years at least. But the panel board rating for wire terminations is what counts. I'll post it for reference the last of this reply.

I have an old challenger panel 1970's vintage I just took a look at in my junk pile and it states

Equipment for use with conductors

#14-#2 at 60 C
#1 - 60/75C
1/0 or larger 75C

so not as simple as one might think on older panels.

Also you might find 20 A & B interesting about the 6 disconnect rule and what it takes for the panel to qualify... in particular "the panelboard must have at least one combintion of breakers where only 6 single throws will fill all the spaces of the panel...that was new to me at least...
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Old 12-05-2009, 04:15 PM   #21
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Thanks Stubbie
So basically check the ratings on your equipment
Everything I have is new..panels, subs & breakers
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Old 12-05-2009, 04:32 PM   #22
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Your welcome Scuba


I have been having some idle time after getting the laundry finished and the painting inside done and the cooking and the.... god my wife is lucky.. She says she loves me but I can't hardly blame her for that. To freakin cold to fish so just looking at my new drive to park the boat and truck.

Hope all the guys here are doing well after turkey day.... Been making a few replies to the forum over the last couple days.
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Old 12-05-2009, 04:37 PM   #23
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Just wanted to say there isn't much issue today as all residential panelboards/load centers are listed for 75C wire connections. You want to be careful of the big lugs though cause they will be listed at 90C lots of times but you cannot use 90c ampacity on those lugs because the panel is not listed that way.
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Old 12-07-2009, 07:56 PM   #24
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Thanks for the response guys. This confirms some of my research and I am grateful for the advice. this will help save some time, some money, and some bad wiring.
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Old 12-07-2009, 08:22 PM   #25
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Perhaps this was not the best place to bring up this argument. Unless your taking the Jouneymans test it probaly don't make much difference.

I would go ahead and install #2 copper and go about my business.

And so it goes, R
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Old 12-07-2009, 08:25 PM   #26
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And I went ahead & installed #3, inspected by the Inspector & was done with it

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