Forums | Home Repair | Home Improvement | Painting | Interior Decorating | Remodeling | Landscaping


Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 01-25-2011, 04:29 PM   #1
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Joliet, IL
Posts: 30
Share |
Default

grounding service panel


If a house is grounded outside via a grounding rod into the earth, does it also have to be grounded to a water pipe in the basement?
klaus135 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2011, 04:40 PM   #2
Member
 
joed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Welland, Ontario
Posts: 7,204
Default

grounding service panel


It's not actually grounded to the water pipe. The proper term is the water pipe is bonded to the panel ground. The purpose being to cause the breaker to trip if power somehow gets applied to the pipes.

Yes it needs to be done even with ground rods present.
__________________
Do not PM with questions that can be asked in a forum. I will not respond.
joed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2011, 04:45 PM   #3
Licensed Electrical Cont.
 
Speedy Petey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NY State
Posts: 6,682
Default

grounding service panel


Well, if the water pipe entering the house is metallic and in contact with the the earth for 10' or more it should be used as an electrode. There are certain requirements in this case, and it also serves the purpose of bonding.
Speedy Petey is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2011, 04:56 PM   #4
Master Electrician
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Indiana
Posts: 2,686
Default

grounding service panel


I believe it to be a grounding electrode, not just a bond, as Speedy has said.
brric is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2011, 07:00 PM   #5
Member
 
joed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Welland, Ontario
Posts: 7,204
Default

grounding service panel


If there are ground rod(s) present as the OP asked is the pipe still considered an electrode?
__________________
Do not PM with questions that can be asked in a forum. I will not respond.
joed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2011, 07:42 PM   #6
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Nashua, NH, USA
Posts: 6,781
Default

grounding service panel


If the plumbing is capable of providing a grounding electrode (metal cold water pipe extends out from the foundation the 10 feet) you might as well use that as the (primary) grounding electrode. Seeing that you have to bond it to the electrical system ground.

Gas piping must also be bonded to your #6 ground wire network (grounding electrode system) but the gas pipe exiting the house does not count as a grounding electrode. For gas piping, the National Electric Code allows the ground wire that serves a hard wired electrical appliance that uses gas to be the bond, going back to the panel via the respective branch circuit although some cities require a #6 wire direct to the grounding eletrode system.

Idiosyncrasy: For services of more than 100 amps, you need #4 wire between the panel and the water pipe as a ground electrode but #6 will still suffice going to ground rods.
__________________
The average homeowner who lost his house in the Oklahoma tornadoes should move for good and not rebuild. Too much complexity watchdogging the contractor. Too much a chance to be defrauded.

Last edited by AllanJ; 01-25-2011 at 08:12 PM.
AllanJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2011, 08:24 PM   #7
Master Electrician
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Indiana
Posts: 2,686
Default

grounding service panel


Quote:
Originally Posted by joed View Post
If there are ground rod(s) present as the OP asked is the pipe still considered an electrode?
Absolutely. For other than lightning ground rods are pretty much useless as a grounding means.
brric is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2011, 08:47 PM   #8
nap
You talking to me?
 
nap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: sw mi
Posts: 5,407
Default

grounding service panel


Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedy Petey View Post
Well, if the water pipe entering the house is metallic and in contact with the the earth for 10' or more it must be used as an electrode. There are certain requirements in this case, and it also serves the purpose of bonding.

Petey...I know you know better.

and a water pipe with the 10 feet contact yada yada is always considered a grounding electrode. In fact, it is the first in the the list of electrodes in the NEC.

Last edited by nap; 01-25-2011 at 08:51 PM.
nap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2011, 08:58 PM   #9
Licensed Electrical Cont.
 
Speedy Petey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NY State
Posts: 6,682
Default

grounding service panel


Nap, I'm not sure what you mean.

Although I didn't mean to imply that he had to do this after the fact. But it should have been done when the service was installed.
Speedy Petey is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2011, 09:03 PM   #10
nap
You talking to me?
 
nap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: sw mi
Posts: 5,407
Default

grounding service panel


Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedy Petey View Post
Nap, I'm not sure what you mean.

Although I didn't mean to imply that he had to do this after the fact. But it should have been done when the service was installed.
you had typed "should" be used. I corrected it to "must" be used.
nap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2011, 09:15 PM   #11
Master Electrician
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Indiana
Posts: 2,686
Default

grounding service panel


Quote:
Originally Posted by nap View Post
Petey...I know you know better.

and a water pipe with the 10 feet contact yada yada is always considered a grounding electrode. In fact, it is the first in the the list of electrodes in the NEC.
Nap, why do so many people not understand this?
brric is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2011, 09:24 PM   #12
nap
You talking to me?
 
nap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: sw mi
Posts: 5,407
Default

grounding service panel


Quote:
Originally Posted by brric View Post
Nap, why do so many people not understand this?
well, most electricians do, at least the ones that I know. They should know anyway. When it comes to laymen, all bets are off.

Maybe it's because a lot of homes currently use plastic pipe for the water supply so it isn't as common as it once was.
nap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2011, 09:34 PM   #13
Licensed Electrical Cont.
 
Speedy Petey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NY State
Posts: 6,682
Default

grounding service panel


Quote:
Originally Posted by nap View Post
you had typed "should" be used. I corrected it to "must" be used.
I see, yeah, I wrote that wrong.
Speedy Petey is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Wiring Size Calculations for New Service CorinthWest Electrical 7 12-07-2010 11:36 AM
200 amp panel w/100 amp service PirateKatz Electrical 8 12-26-2009 03:42 PM
Upgrade Service Panel - Do I need a new meter? El Kati Electrical 6 08-11-2008 07:35 PM
Nuetral from feeder cable to main panel question? TW Lucas Electrical 14 05-08-2008 11:33 AM
New service panel + Generator transfer Nhrafan Electrical 1 04-21-2008 11:05 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.