Grounding Rods For Spas - Electrical - Page 4 - DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum


Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-10-2010, 05:07 PM   #46
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: lompoc, ca. county of santa barbara
Posts: 14
Rewards Points: 10
Default

grounding rods for spas


im starting to understand, and like your straight to the pointism. i just made that word up. although i am a little confused on the discision. it still sounds like i DONT need an additional grounding rod in my case.

Advertisement

scottyweis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2010, 06:16 PM   #47
liscenced electrician
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Oregon coast
Posts: 997
Rewards Points: 514
Default

grounding rods for spas


Quote:
Originally Posted by scottyweis View Post
im starting to understand, and like your straight to the pointism. i just made that word up. although i am a little confused on the discision. it still sounds like i DONT need an additional grounding rod in my case.

A ground rod is not needed and you will not get any extra safety by having one. If you did decide to have one, make sure you absolutly do still run a ground wire back to your main panel. A ground rod downstream does not establish a new ground and would be a hazard
jimmy21 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2010, 07:26 PM   #48
UAW SKILLED TRADES
 
Stubbie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kansas
Posts: 5,212
Rewards Points: 2,394
Default

grounding rods for spas


Scotty

Your spa panel is attached to your house which has the service equipment (main panel) it has all the grounding to earth done at that panel.
Now lets say you had a pool or spa house separate from your dwelling with the service equipment .... and in that spa house was your spa panel. In that case you would require a ground rod for protection of property not humans.

680.26(B) Tells you there is no requirement to connect to any ground rods in your situation.

Ground rods offer no protection for humans. They are not the same as the equipment grounding conductors which facilitate the opening of circuit breakers and are meant to protect humans from electrocution. The bonding wire that connects all the metal parts together for the spa and the equipotential grid under the spa plus the equipment grounding is what keeps you safe. Driving a ground rod just adds needless metal in the ground.

You could drive a 100 of them around your pool/spa with no benefit to human safety.
__________________
" One nice thing about the NEC articles ... you have lots of choices"

Stubbie
Stubbie is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Stubbie For This Useful Post:
stickboy1375 (09-15-2014)
Old 09-13-2010, 12:02 PM   #49
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: lompoc, ca. county of santa barbara
Posts: 14
Rewards Points: 10
Default

grounding rods for spas


well the wiring is all run. all hooked up. filled the spa to make sure it all works, and BAM!!!!!! everything works great. now all we need is the inspection. thanks so much for all of the advice and concerns. i will surely use this site in the future for anything i may have questions about. anybody know how to make a wife happy? lol
scottyweis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2014, 03:20 PM   #50
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: San Francisco Bay Area-
Posts: 57
Rewards Points: 49
Default

grounding rods for spas


You guy's have condoned the use of a #10 ground on the way to the main service from a tub that needs #6---I was told (Dr Spa) that 1. The ground needs to be same or larger than the feeder size and 2 a ground may NOT be3 reduced on the way to the main service---( http://www.whatsthebest-hottub.com/f...on=profile;u=3) So who is correct?
DaveMcSF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2014, 03:51 PM   #51
Licensed electrician
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 7,996
Rewards Points: 2,790
Default

grounding rods for spas


The NEC allows a #10. Sometimes the instructions call for a #6, which is above the NEC requirement.
__________________
Answers based on the National Electrical Code. Local amendments may apply. Check with your local building officials.
Jim Port is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Jim Port For This Useful Post:
stickboy1375 (09-15-2014)
Old 09-15-2014, 04:20 PM   #52
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: San Francisco Bay Area-
Posts: 57
Rewards Points: 49
Default

grounding rods for spas


Well my understanding is that a #10 or a #8 is ok for a sub panel--it is not ok for a spa---therefore it is not ok for a spa sub panel---
Are you saying that a #10 is ok for a ground wire from the main service to the spa sub panel where the spa control panel requires (4)#6 hot hot neutral and ground?
DaveMcSF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2014, 05:50 PM   #53
E2 Electrician
 
stickboy1375's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Litchfield, CT
Posts: 5,162
Rewards Points: 2,116
Default

grounding rods for spas


Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveMcSF View Post
Well my understanding is that a #10 or a #8 is ok for a sub panel--it is not ok for a spa---therefore it is not ok for a spa sub panel---
Are you saying that a #10 is ok for a ground wire from the main service to the spa sub panel where the spa control panel requires (4)#6 hot hot neutral and ground?
The NEC requires one thing, but sometimes a spa with require some more than NEC requires.
stickboy1375 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to stickboy1375 For This Useful Post:
Jump-start (09-16-2014)
Old 09-15-2014, 08:33 PM   #54
Licensed Electrical Cont.
 
Speedy Petey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NY State
Posts: 6,899
Rewards Points: 2,152
Default

grounding rods for spas


Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveMcSF View Post
Well my understanding is that a #10 or a #8 is ok for a sub panel--it is not ok for a spa---therefore it is not ok for a spa sub panel---
Are you saying that a #10 is ok for a ground wire from the main service to the spa sub panel where the spa control panel requires (4)#6 hot hot neutral and ground?
Where did you get this misinformation?
__________________
Sometimes I feel like if I answer any more questions it is like someone trying to climb over a fence to jump off a bridge and me giving them a boost.
Answers based on the 2008 & 2011 NEC.
Speedy Petey is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2014, 08:37 PM   #55
DIYer/PoleMonkey
 
clw1963's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: So Calif
Posts: 776
Rewards Points: 256
Default

grounding rods for spas


I believe they're saying according to the NEC it's permitted. However equipment manufactures can spec out something more than the NEC requirement but not less than. While the experts here are generally thoroughly versed in NEC, I wouldn't expect them to know the mfgs requirements of every piece of equipment that exists.
clw1963 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2014, 08:38 PM   #56
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: San Francisco Bay Area-
Posts: 57
Rewards Points: 49
Default

grounding rods for spas


http://www.whatsthebest-hottub.com/f...c,18111.0.html "I'm reading this as, from the breaker main panel, your feeding the spa disconnect (you're calling this a "sub panel", but since it's ONLY feeding the spa, it technically isn't a sub panel).

In the USA there's what's called the National Electric Codes (NEC). Most municipalities adopt these codes...some are many years behind current codes, some add their own or make some of the codes more stringent. There are a number of electric codes SPECIFICALLY for pools and spas that are DIFFERENT that the "normal" electric codes. MANY electricians, and even building inspectors are either unaware of, or misinterpret these codes. While liquid tight is common to be used, there is a MAXIMUM length, by code, it can be run. I believe it's 6 feet, though it may be 3. But again, you may be able to get away with doing something differently if no one catches it, or is aware of this limitation.

The ground wire must be capable of carrying the same amperage as the hot wires. A smaller wire will not do this. The potential, with a direct short, is that the smaller ground wire will melt before the breaker trips, and now the spa wont be grounded. (FYI, you CAN run a smaller neutral wire, but most inspectors wont allow it without you proving it's acceptable).


Remember, just because you read it on the internet, it's not necessarily true....and I may not be completely correct in my responses (the codes do change every year, and it's been a few years since I've seen the code book...and any municipality is free to adopt what ever codes they "feel like")"
DaveMcSF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2014, 08:42 PM   #57
Licensed Electrical Cont.
 
Speedy Petey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NY State
Posts: 6,899
Rewards Points: 2,152
Default

grounding rods for spas


Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveMcSF View Post


"Remember, just because you read it on the internet, it's not necessarily true....and I may not be completely correct in my responses ...."
He's not correct. Not unless he can provide a code citation to back it up....which he will NOT find in the NEC.

In Art.680 it specifically states that the interior wiring portion to a spa or pool motor in a single family dwelling can use the wiring methods in Chapter 3. This would include NM cable.

I think you need to go back and tell him he's wrong.
He's even wrong in a previous post where he says "most inspectors are unaware of this specific code and will allow you to go ONE size smaller". He does not know what he is talking about. Grounds are sized according to Table 250.122, NOT "one size smaller".
__________________
Sometimes I feel like if I answer any more questions it is like someone trying to climb over a fence to jump off a bridge and me giving them a boost.
Answers based on the 2008 & 2011 NEC.

Last edited by Speedy Petey; 09-15-2014 at 08:45 PM.
Speedy Petey is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2014, 08:45 PM   #58
DIYer/PoleMonkey
 
clw1963's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: So Calif
Posts: 776
Rewards Points: 256
Default

grounding rods for spas


How can he say you can do something if its wrong? I would think he'd quote a source.

And you sound pretty disingenuous to the guys trying to help you here.

Shady

Your "other" source has the caveat.... "I may not be completely correct in my responses."

Last edited by clw1963; 09-15-2014 at 08:56 PM.
clw1963 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2014, 09:05 PM   #59
DIYer/PoleMonkey
 
clw1963's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: So Calif
Posts: 776
Rewards Points: 256
Default

grounding rods for spas


AND... You glommed on to a 4 year old post.
clw1963 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2014, 09:06 PM   #60
Licensed Electrical Cont.
 
Speedy Petey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NY State
Posts: 6,899
Rewards Points: 2,152
Default

grounding rods for spas


Quote:
Originally Posted by clw1963 View Post
AND... You glommed on to a 4 year old post.
And double posted at the same time.

Advertisement

__________________
Sometimes I feel like if I answer any more questions it is like someone trying to climb over a fence to jump off a bridge and me giving them a boost.
Answers based on the 2008 & 2011 NEC.
Speedy Petey is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
grounding electrode conductor question bsperr Electrical 8 12-05-2009 10:23 AM
grounding of main panel and sub panel in older house linkysys Electrical 2 10-01-2009 05:34 PM
Grounding Method Steelhead Electrical 6 02-05-2009 12:06 PM
Anyone want to take a shot at why #6 to attach antenna ground to breaker? Piedmont Electrical 44 01-08-2008 05:11 PM
NEC Question Jafsvcs Electrical 1 06-13-2007 06:45 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts