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Old 08-31-2010, 01:56 PM   #1
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grounding rods for spas


do i really need a grounding rod for my spa. when i picked up the spa from original owner. i disconnected it myself. the spa is only 4 years old. and it is a 4 wire system, and all there was to disconnect was 4 wires. i saw no grounding rod anywhere near the spa or connected to it. so. my question is again, do i need a grounding rod for the spa, if so, where does the rod go, and what wires connect to it, i know it needs to be a #8 Or# 6 solid wire. but have no idea how to hook it up. i hear people say, yes, then i read that it isnt neccessary. i dont want to kill my family, so this is very important to me, and i am right in the middle of finishing the wiring. please help me, it is very frustrating.
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Old 08-31-2010, 02:06 PM   #2
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grounding rods for spas


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do i really need a grounding rod for my spa.
No. This has never been a requirement.
Who said you did? They were wrong.
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Old 08-31-2010, 03:00 PM   #3
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grounding rods for spas


Quote:
Originally Posted by scottyweis View Post
do i really need a grounding rod for my spa. when i picked up the spa from original owner. i disconnected it myself. the spa is only 4 years old. and it is a 4 wire system, and all there was to disconnect was 4 wires. i saw no grounding rod anywhere near the spa or connected to it. so. my question is again, do i need a grounding rod for the spa, if so, where does the rod go, and what wires connect to it, i know it needs to be a #8 Or# 6 solid wire. but have no idea how to hook it up. i hear people say, yes, then i read that it isnt neccessary. i dont want to kill my family, so this is very important to me, and i am right in the middle of finishing the wiring. please help me, it is very frustrating.
As Speedy has said no grounding rod .... but it is important that you know all that is required for the code compliance for a spa installation. What are you using as a reference or guide for code compliance ?

A detailed description of what you have done to this point would help us determine if the spa is meeting those requirements.
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Old 08-31-2010, 04:19 PM   #4
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grounding rods for spas


i hasnt told it was a requirement, just a good precaution. but i have never seen a grounding rod by a spa in my life, and i have seen a few.
i am basically using my electrical knowledge and website that have wiring diagrams as my guide. the owners manual is helping as well. the spa is a 240v 60hz 40a, 4 wire spa. have pvc conduit ran through my attic already. a total of roughly 100 ft. from service panel to GFCI panel box(50a spa breaker box) then another 10 ft. underground to the spa. from what ive read and know. i am going to use #6 THHN copper wire because of the length of the run. now i am very handy around the house, i consider myself a carpenter and live by that. but electrical is always a concern to me, so i really take my time and ask alot of questions when it come to it. i feel that i dont need a grounding rod. if i am grounded at the panel box, the spa breaker box, and the actual spa panel. that is all i should need. RIGHT?
I REALLY APPRECIATE ALL OF YOU WHO ARE RESPONDING TO MY ISSUES.

thank you speedy. i had a feeling that was the case. if there is any way you could help me more. my wife and family would really appreicate it. i think im on the right track so far. but this dam rod concern has got me questioning the whole safety issue
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Old 08-31-2010, 05:02 PM   #5
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grounding rods for spas


Ground rods are for high voltage events like lightning. Your spa does not need one, nor would it benefit you to add one.
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Old 08-31-2010, 05:41 PM   #6
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grounding rods for spas


thank you jim, i think i have made up my mind, im not going to worry about it anymore. i appreciate your help
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Old 08-31-2010, 05:45 PM   #7
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grounding rods for spas


There is a hot tub bonding grid needed now....
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Old 08-31-2010, 06:17 PM   #8
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grounding rods for spas


Quote:
Originally Posted by scottyweis View Post
i hasnt told it was a requirement, just a good precaution. but i have never seen a grounding rod by a spa in my life, and i have seen a few.
i am basically using my electrical knowledge and website that have wiring diagrams as my guide. the owners manual is helping as well. the spa is a 240v 60hz 40a, 4 wire spa. have pvc conduit ran through my attic already. a total of roughly 100 ft. from service panel to GFCI panel box(50a spa breaker box) then another 10 ft. underground to the spa. from what ive read and know. i am going to use #6 THHN copper wire because of the length of the run. now i am very handy around the house, i consider myself a carpenter and live by that. but electrical is always a concern to me, so i really take my time and ask alot of questions when it come to it. i feel that i dont need a grounding rod. if i am grounded at the panel box, the spa breaker box, and the actual spa panel. that is all i should need. RIGHT?
I REALLY APPRECIATE ALL OF YOU WHO ARE RESPONDING TO MY ISSUES.
That is fine be sure you use conduit all the way to the spa control panel. Liquid tight is common from the spa panel back to the spa control panel.Your equipment ground wire must be insulated green and can be #10 awg copper, neutral insulated white, the hot conductors can be black insulated all should be #6 awg.

You should have your installation inspected to insure safety by the local code authority.

I'm going to link you to a pool download to read about spas and the sections you need to reference ... come back here with questions. New code requires a bonding grid under the spa but this will depend on your jurisdiction and adopted code cycle.

Scroll down to Part IV 680.40

http://www.mikeholt.com/files/PDF/Pooldownload.pdf

A 4 wire spa is 120/240 volt and requires a neutral the connections to spa panel will be similar to this ...
Attached Thumbnails
grounding rods for spas-240-gfci-spa-1.jpg  
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Last edited by Stubbie; 08-31-2010 at 06:24 PM.
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Old 08-31-2010, 07:57 PM   #9
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grounding rods for spas


Quote:
Originally Posted by scottyweis View Post
i hasnt told it was a requirement, just a good precaution.
Wherever you got this from it is completely bogus.
My first question to anyone with this statement would be WHAT is it a precaution against? I bet anything they would not know how to answer. Because there is no correct answer.
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Old 08-31-2010, 09:01 PM   #10
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grounding rods for spas


Without looking IIRC there is a limit of 6' of LFNMC to feed the hot tub.
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Old 08-31-2010, 09:17 PM   #11
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grounding rods for spas


Quote:
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Without looking IIRC there is a limit of 6' of LFNMC to feed the hot tub.

Jim.,

In most case oui it is 6 feet but very few exempts that they will allow more longer { that is up to the inspector final call if that in guideline withen state codes }

I know in Wisconsin it is 6 feet and in France it is 2.5 meter max distance with LFNMC but for other use { if cable tray or part of equiment set up then it is allowed }

Merci.
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Old 09-01-2010, 11:18 AM   #12
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grounding rods for spas


what the heck is LFNMC. and what is the ft. length refering to.

thank you for the diagram stubbie. i found a similiar one, so it looks like the ground wire can be a smaller gauge wir, #10 awg. is this safe and ok by codes. that sure would save on cost of wire, since i have about a 100 ft. run. i was going to get all 4 wire at #6 awg.
also, the spa breaker box i bought 50amp. has a, what looks to be "lead" bar screwed to on the inside of the box. what is this for
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Old 09-01-2010, 11:35 AM   #13
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grounding rods for spas


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what the heck is LFNMC. and what is the ft. length refering to.
The LFNMC is Liquidtite Fexibale Non Metalic Conduit.

There is very specfic part in NEC code we only allow up to 6 feet maxuim distance anything longer it will need specal extempt by inspector or it was part of machinery.

Now for your conductors sizes.,

For the green grounding conductor it have to be minuim of 6.0mm˛ { #10AWG } and it can NOT be bare conductor inside the conduit this is one of few specfic codes we have to follow { The bare conductors will be allowed only in indoor location that it }

For the line conductors and neturals those three conductors you will need at least 16mm˛ {#6 AWG } copper.

Oui (Yes ) you will have to use the netural at spa panel so get the RCD { GFCI } to function properly. { see Stubbie diagram to make sure you understand it }


Merci.
Marc
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Old 09-01-2010, 01:40 PM   #14
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grounding rods for spas


ok, that makes sense since i am running pvc electrical conduit throught the entire run, except for right where i go into the spas side wall. composite material. from there, i am using the flex line to the actual spa circuit board.
i have to say, you all really are a big help in this matter, im glad there are people out there like you that are willing to share their knowledge.
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Old 09-01-2010, 04:02 PM   #15
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grounding rods for spas


You do need the inspectors approval as Jim and Frenchy stated to comply with 680.42(A)(1) to go longer than 6 feet with either LFNMC or LFMC. This is required for SPAS only to my knowledge See NEC 250.118 (6)a-e if you have a length longer than 6 feet.


I think you may have mentioned 10 feet so if you run that far basically you would install like this after inspector approval

LFNMC can be longer than 6 feet if supported at 3 foot intervals...NEC 356.10 (5) It is not very friendly though in cold weather.

LFMC


LFMC can be longer than 6 feet as long as your not going to use it for equipment ground.... If you run a insulated ground wire which is required for the spa it can be longer than 6 feet and supported a t 3 feet intervals.


Scott:

The circuit breaker protecting your feeder wires determines the equipment ground wire size . If the breaker is 30 - 60 amps #10 awg copper insulated green ground is code compliant for your spa. NEC 250.122
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