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Old 10-21-2008, 06:44 PM   #1
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grounding rod won't go in


My house was built in the area of a quarry. I had an idea that it might be hard to put in the grounding rods. Well I have one in and the top is at ground level.

The second one is about 6 inches above grade. It really does not want to go in further. I got it in so there was about 8 inches above grade and then ran the hose, pounded with a 8 pound sledge, and rotated the rod around with a pipe wrench for another 45 minutes. 7' 4" took about 5 minutes. The next 2 inches took 45 minutes. I had to stop, I was covered in mud, the sun was going down and I was freezing. My hands and arms are shaking from swinging that sledge, Hard to type.

That part of the yard is a bit low. Do I back fill the yard to bring the grade up a few inches? I pulled out a level 4' away (at the house) the rod is only above grade about 1.5". So a not so large increase in the grade would make the rod at or below grade.

So do I back fill my side yard a bit or do I get a new rod and start over. I guess I could pull this rod out with a farm jack.

If I leave this rod and put in another one, is it worth it to still tie this rod into my system, even if it is not regulation because it is not down those last couple inches? I don't really want to cut if off even if I am not using it because that just looks bad.

So frustrated...

I was going to put the hilte on it, but my largest chuck on the hilte is 1/2.

Jamie

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Old 10-21-2008, 08:02 PM   #2
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grounding rod won't go in


A couple inches isn't going to make a difference in the real world. A couple feet...Yes. You can't legally cut it off, but you can dig a hole around it and bend it down at 45 degrees. Then you just backfill the hole. Or you can do as you suggested and bring in a couple inches of dirt. If you're having it inspected I'd suggest leaving the top of it and the acorn exposed so the inspector can see it.

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Old 10-21-2008, 10:03 PM   #3
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grounding rod won't go in


That along with the above reply sounds pretty good to me.

Just for your info, say if you could only get the rods in half way, another option is to drive a 3rd rod. Or 4th, 5th, etc.

They have this problem on mountain tops for radio towers and the like. Sometimes it is mostly rock up there.

And this is a good example of where local codes may differ from national codes. Certain things might be a common problem in certain areas and the local codes address these situations.
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Old 10-21-2008, 10:15 PM   #4
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grounding rod won't go in


The NEC gives three options for ground rods.

1) drive it 8' vertical
2) drive it 45 degrees
3) lay it in a trench (24" deep I think)
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Old 10-21-2008, 10:36 PM   #5
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grounding rod won't go in


Quote:
Originally Posted by thekctermite View Post
The NEC gives three options for ground rods.

3) lay it in a trench (24" deep I think)
Close, it's 30 inches.

I agree with the KCtermite's previous reply. The easiest, most code compliant fix in this situation would be to dig down a couple feet next to the rod and bend it over to a 45 degree angle.
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Old 10-21-2008, 11:28 PM   #6
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grounding rod won't go in


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Close, it's 30 inches.
Yeah, I'd have to look that one up...We have good soil here and basically never have to trench them!
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Old 10-22-2008, 12:28 AM   #7
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grounding rod won't go in


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Old 10-22-2008, 12:37 AM   #8
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grounding rod won't go in


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Originally Posted by 220/221 View Post
City of Phoenix Development Services Department (codes people):
(602) 262-7811
Ask for Mark Leonard. He'll tell you what to do with that extra piece of ground rod...
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Old 10-22-2008, 12:39 AM   #9
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grounding rod won't go in


It wasn't in Phoenix but thanks for playing.
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Old 10-22-2008, 12:58 AM   #10
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grounding rod won't go in


Quote:
Originally Posted by 220/221 View Post
It wasn't in Phoenix but thanks for playing.
Oh nuts... I meant to say contact the Arizona State Registrar of Contractors. They can be reached at (602) 542-1525. They can tell you for sure what to do with it.
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Old 10-22-2008, 07:35 AM   #11
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grounding rod won't go in


Quote:
Originally Posted by InPhase277 View Post
Oh nuts... I meant to say contact the Arizona State Registrar of Contractors. They can be reached at (602) 542-1525. They can tell you for sure what to do with it.
Inside joke about the Arizona inspectors I guess.....
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Old 10-22-2008, 07:48 AM   #12
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grounding rod won't go in


Quote:
Originally Posted by thekctermite View Post
The NEC gives three options for ground rods.

1) drive it 8' vertical
2) drive it 45 degrees
3) lay it in a trench (24" deep I think)
Thank You, Thank You!

I read you first reply last night just before I went to bed and I slept so much better knowing that this is going to be an easy fix! I think I will just dig out a little area and lean on it with a pipe bender to put it at a 45 degree angle, then I can be done with the project in a half hour.

To regrade that area (that side of the house) I am going to be looking at around 7 yards of dirt, so I wasn't looking forward to that option.

Me after the fight with the ground rod. Guess I should have had knee pads on! LOL. My muscles are still shaky from all that pounding!

grounding rod won't go in-img_3928.jpg


The " bad* " grounding rod that just won't go in any further. *=insert numerous non PC words here.

grounding rod won't go in-img_3941.jpg

Thanks again, I am so glad there is an easy solution and I can get this done today. I was cleaning the garage (you know it is a huge mess if you happened to see my work bench photos I posted last week) and I saw the rods and though, well, I should go ahead and install these quickly... ha, nothing quick about it.

I am in Wisconsin and we can have pretty hard winters. I am planing on doing the service upgrade some time in the next couple months, I am still too busy with other projects at the moment to devote the time and resources to doing the service upgrade now. So I didn't want to have to even think about how you install a grounding rod when the ground is frozen solid with 2 feet of snow on it. I am not positive how they will inspect it in the winter, but I have photos of the install, including photos of the NEC stamp on the top of the rod before I pounded that part in. I also have video of myself pounding in at least the first half of one of the rods. So hopefully it will not be an issue.

Jamie
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Old 10-22-2008, 07:55 AM   #13
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grounding rod won't go in


That is one of the funniest pictures I've seen in a while Jamie.
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Old 10-22-2008, 07:56 AM   #14
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grounding rod won't go in


Quote:
Originally Posted by 220/221 View Post
I love it when I catch people doing that.
Fortunately, Jamie's integrity (and ground rod) will remain fully intact.
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Old 10-22-2008, 09:21 AM   #15
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grounding rod won't go in


Quote:
Originally Posted by thekctermite View Post
I love it when I catch people doing that.
Fortunately, Jamie's integrity (and ground rod) will remain fully intact.
I am going to head out and go my digging / bending shortly. I have 2 nec 5/8" grounding clamps, and #6 braided copper wire coated with green insulator.

So I clamp the #6 to one rod, then run that wire to the second rod, and than clamp the #6 wire along with an additional #6 wire to the second ground rod correct? (both wires go under once clamp correct?) Then the second piece of #6 I run inside to the panel area and it will get connected to the neutral bar in my new panel correct?


#6 ground wire is fine even if it is like 40 feet to my panel right?

Jamie

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