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Old 02-17-2013, 08:45 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by digitalplumber View Post
They did, they installed one ground rod below the new panel.
That doesn't seem like it is good enough. If the house has anything other than CPVC feeding it, the water must be used as an electrode and bonded within 5' of entrance.

The NEC requires a second ground rod unless you are able to prove that the one ground rod has a resistance to earth less than 25 Ohms. However, I have heard that some areas are very lax on the second rod requirement.

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Old 02-17-2013, 01:07 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by k_buz View Post
That doesn't seem like it is good enough. If the house has anything other than CPVC feeding it, the water must be used as an electrode and bonded within 5' of entrance.

The NEC requires a second ground rod unless you are able to prove that the one ground rod has a resistance to earth less than 25 Ohms. However, I have heard that some areas are very lax on the second rod requirement.
I think you have it reversed. The NEC requires 25 ohms or less. If it is not obtainable, then a second rod shall be driven. Semantics
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Old 02-17-2013, 01:22 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by k_buz View Post
That doesn't seem like it is good enough. If the house has anything other than CPVC feeding it, the water must be used as an electrode and bonded within 5' of entrance.

The NEC requires a second ground rod unless you are able to prove that the one ground rod has a resistance to earth less than 25 Ohms. However, I have heard that some areas are very lax on the second rod requirement.


Did you by chance read the full post? I was told to install the second ground rod as an alternative to loosing the stranded copper that was on the old galvanized pipe in the master shower to the panel.
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Old 04-03-2013, 11:12 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by digitalplumber View Post

Did you by chance read the full post? I was told to install the second ground rod as an alternative to loosing the stranded copper that was on the old galvanized pipe in the master shower to the panel.
@k_buz:::: see we all have that capability to misinterpret posts every so often....
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Old 04-03-2013, 11:13 PM   #35
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Just saying.. no ones prefect!
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Old 05-19-2013, 04:38 PM   #36
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Final question on this before I close the ceiling:

The old braided wire issue that I originally inquired about. Should I connect it to the new copper or not? It is still connected in the panel.

I have installed the second ground rod as described earlier.

Have done nothing at or near where the water enters the home.

Any final help will be appreciated.

Thanks
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Old 05-19-2013, 05:39 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by digitalplumber View Post
Final question on this before I close the ceiling:

The old braided wire issue that I originally inquired about. Should I connect it to the new copper or not? It is still connected in the panel.

I have installed the second ground rod as described earlier.

Have done nothing at or near where the water enters the home.

Any final help will be appreciated.

Thanks
Digitalplumber: i would suggest you consult your building codes office where they will let you know to what is required, if you don't comprehend to what's accurately acceptable. I mean NEC is code.. but inspectors attend to have their guidelines to saying what is approved by being as it is altered from its existing structure.
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Old 05-20-2013, 01:25 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by digitalplumber View Post
Final question on this before I close the ceiling:

The old braided wire issue that I originally inquired about. Should I connect it to the new copper or not? It is still connected in the panel.

I have installed the second ground rod as described earlier.

Have done nothing at or near where the water enters the home.

Any final help will be appreciated.

Thanks
Digital,

You need only one (1) bond to the water pipe, so, from what I gather from your posts, the attic wire would be redundant, and not needed, BUT read on.

I believe rrolleston answered this in the following quote, which is Code required.

Quote:
I would move the water pipe bond from where it is now and attach it to where it should be withing five feet of where the water main enters the home. And make sure the water heater has a jumper between the hot and cold.
I believe you said that this wire is connected at your panel, is that correct? If so, then would it still be 30' from the panel to where the water pipe enters the house? Regardless, this is what Code states as required.

The only thing I'm not sure about is if bare stranded (as opposed to solid) is allowed ???

At any rate, in summary, you need the two ground rods (which you state you have).

You also need to bond the water pipe, from the panel, to within 5' of where it enters your home (If the pipe is metal).
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Old 05-20-2013, 06:26 AM   #39
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the 2008 code and the 2011 code seem to say the same thing about more than 25 ohm you need second ground rod., proving this is very very expensive .. even if you have a copper pipe feeding the house ,,more than 6' apart is preferred ..... we always also bond the gas pipes where they come in the house usually seperate to the panel.


the ground rod only ever gets #6 solid copper no bigger.
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Old 05-20-2013, 07:01 AM   #40
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Digital,

You need only one (1) bond to the water pipe, so, from what I gather from your posts, the attic wire would be redundant, and not needed, BUT read on.

There are currently no connections/bonds that I have seen to the water pipes in the home. Remember this is a 60's built home, updated by an electrician recently.

That is why I am asking: Should I just go ahead and connect the braided wire at the cold side, like it was near the panel, to the new copper? even though it is a distance away from point of entry.

I believe rrolleston answered this in the following quote, which is Code required.



I believe you said that this wire is connected at your panel, is that correct? If so, then would it still be 30' from the panel to where the water pipe enters the house? Regardless, this is what Code states as required.

Yes, the distance is about 25-30 feet and I assume that is why the house was grounded at this shower cold side, because it was so close to the panel.


The only thing I'm not sure about is if bare stranded (as opposed to solid) is allowed ???

At any rate, in summary, you need the two ground rods (which you state you have).

Yes as pictured and described earlier.

You also need to bond the water pipe, from the panel, to within 5' of where it enters your home (If the pipe is metal).
"If the pipe is metal?", do you mean the service pipe from the city to the house?

or the pipe from the entry service point throughout the home?
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Old 05-20-2013, 10:50 AM   #41
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Yes cold water pipe to the panel solid copper, jump the meter so 2 connections/clamps

100 panel #6

200 amp # 4
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Old 05-20-2013, 11:39 AM   #42
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Guys.... I'm not a sparky.... and hate searching code... so sometimes I just take the safe route and sometimes do it the more difficult way.

For instance, I thought the ground to the rods had to be continuos... learned something this morning.... THANKS Jim

Also, I always bond around an interior watermeter/prv.

Is that code requirement, or just something I do.... Inspectors seem to notice and like it.... but I never wanted tio actually ask them and show my lack of knowledge on strict code/interpertation.

JUST CURIOUS and thanks

Best

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Old 05-20-2013, 03:16 PM   #43
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Yes cold water pipe to the panel solid copper, jump the meter so 2 connections/clamps

100 panel #6

200 amp # 4

PM,

I really appreciate your response, but please understand this: I am not trying to nor have I bootlegged this. We had an electrician rewire the house prior to my son moving in.

So my question about the stranded copper wire coming from the panel nearby and attached to the old shower galvanized pipe, which has been replaced with copper now, came about because of the bathroom remodel. Not something serious that I am trying to do with electrical.

Having said this, your response may be understandable by someone that does this daily, but not me.



So is this what you are saying: connect the new copper back to the panel and then run a new solid wire from the water service entering the house, back to the electrical panel?

Thanks!
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Old 05-20-2013, 05:03 PM   #44
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So is this what you are saying: connect the new copper back to the panel and then run a new solid wire from the water service entering the house, back to the electrical panel?

Thanks!
These terms seem to be bandied about in an unintelligible way.
When you say Copper, are you referring to Copper Piping, or Copper wire? if the wire, just use the term wire.

I'm inclined to believe that you've upgraded the piping in the attic to the shower to copper. OK. You need do nothing else, EXCEPT, run a bare #6 from the panel to the pipe that enters the house from the city. This bond must be made within 5' from where it enters the house.
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Old 05-20-2013, 05:04 PM   #45
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These terms seem to be bandied about in an unintelligible way.
When you say Copper, are you referring to Copper Piping, or Copper wire? if the wire, just use the term wire.

I'm inclined to believe that you've upgraded the piping in the attic to the shower to copper. OK. You need do nothing else, EXCEPT, run a bare #6 from the panel to the pipe that enters the house from the city. This bond must be made within 5' from where it enters the house.

THANKS CRYSTAL CLEAR NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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