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Old 07-13-2012, 05:17 PM   #1
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in ground pool bonding


I got a couple of questions. Here is what i got, a in ground pool made of concrete block (18'x36') but is vinyl lined, 2 ladders and a light. The coping around the pool is made of aluminum. Also will have a concrete deck surrounding the pool 10' around. All pool equipment is in a shed 12' away from pool. This is my plan, bond the light niche and the 2 ladders together. Should i bond the pump with them, or can I hook the pump to the ground rod out side the shed? Does the aluminum coping need to be bonded? Also since the pool is vinyl lined it doesn't need to be bonded?

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Old 07-13-2012, 05:27 PM   #2
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You better find out what NEC your state is on, when you pull your permit, sometimes they give out pamphlets on what is required to be done. Good luck and wire safe!

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Old 07-13-2012, 05:29 PM   #3
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This is my plan, bond the light niche and the 2 ladders together. Should i bond the pump with them, or can I hook the pump to the ground rod out side the shed? Does the aluminum coping need to be bonded? Also since the pool is vinyl lined it doesn't need to be bonded?
You need to read article 680 of the NEC, and don't drive a ground rod, that will accomplish nothing.



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Old 07-13-2012, 06:01 PM   #4
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PLEASE read ALL of NEC 680 II

The fact that you are asking this:
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Should i bond the pump with them, or can I hook the pump to the ground rod out side the shed?
...tells me you need to SERIOUSLY read up on this installation.

Or better yet hire a competent pro to do it. It will be money WELL spent.
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Answers based on the 2008 & 2011 NEC.
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Old 07-13-2012, 06:03 PM   #5
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IMO, in ground pools are way above the average DIY person, and don't take this personally, because, yes, it is all doable by anyone, but the fact that the code section is a big one, it's impossible to give out EVERY detail of every installation. It's just too risky that you might miss that one thing, that could result in an injury or death.

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Old 07-13-2012, 07:16 PM   #6
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everything metal has to be grounded in a pool, right down to the rebar in the concrete. Like everyone else has already said, do your research before you start.
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Old 07-13-2012, 07:20 PM   #7
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everything metal has to be grounded in a pool, right down to the rebar in the concrete. Like everyone else has already said, do your research before you start.
You mean bonded.
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Old 07-13-2012, 07:27 PM   #8
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ya sorry force of habit, i just call them all grounds. I guess i'll have to watch that on here. Don't want someone sticking the ground/bond from a lightning arrester into their panel. technically though everything around the pool gets bonded together and then gets grounded though :p

we're doing a pool at the new four seasons hotel in toronto right now, every stinking drain,railing,underwater speaker, rebar, and every piece of aluminum trim around the edge gets a bond. Pool deck and pool both, there's wire running everywhere under the tiles lol.

thank goodness they decided against the shiny metal tiles for the bottom.
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Old 07-13-2012, 07:32 PM   #9
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ya sorry force of habit, i just call them all grounds. I guess i'll have to watch that on here. Don't want someone sticking the ground/bond from a lightning arrester into their panel.
The terminology would be much simpler if they just changed it to earthing and bonding, and not intertwine grounding so much with earthing....
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Old 07-13-2012, 07:36 PM   #10
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technically though everything around the pool gets bonded together and then gets grounded though :p

But the reason we bond everything is to keep everything at the same potential, BIG difference.
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Old 07-13-2012, 09:11 PM   #11
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OK, I read the 2011 nec 680 again. Bonding and grounding is a little confusion to me. Even though my pool is made of concrete block but since it has a vinyl liner it does not need to be bonded. The concrete around the pool will have some wire mesh in it so it needs to be bonded. I will connect the mesh to one of the ladders from there to the coping, to the other ladder, to the light, then to the pump. do i need to run a separate wire all the way around the pool?
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Old 07-13-2012, 09:29 PM   #12
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PLEASE, go read 680.26 over and over until you understand it.

I for one and not going to copy and past the whole section and explain every little bit of it.

Maybe someone else is willing to hold your hand on this one, but NOT me.
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Old 07-13-2012, 09:31 PM   #13
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I agree with speedy on this one, this will turn into a 1000 message thread.
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Old 07-14-2012, 09:01 AM   #14
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http://www.erbinspections.com/Forms%...tallations.pdf


Read through this, it should shed some light on what you're actually reading...Has pretty pictures of pool examples.

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Old 07-14-2012, 09:41 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by vasben View Post
OK, I read the 2011 nec 680 again. Bonding and grounding is a little confusion to me. Even though my pool is made of concrete block but since it has a vinyl liner it does not need to be bonded. The concrete around the pool will have some wire mesh in it so it needs to be bonded. I will connect the mesh to one of the ladders from there to the coping, to the other ladder, to the light, then to the pump. do i need to run a separate wire all the way around the pool?
What type of decking material are you using. Stone, pavers, brick, concrete are all cosidered conductive surfaces and need to have a proper bond system installed. Do not move forward with this project untill you have a good understanding of why the bonding system is important and why it exists. I fix about 8-10 pools each year for customers who complain of electrical shocks when getting in and out of the pool, when touching the metal fence around the pool while standing on a wet deck, touching the ladder while standing on the deck, Etc, Etc, Etc.

I am a pool owner and a member of a pool owners forum. This question comes up almost weekly.

I wrote this a while back to help some people with understanding the difference between bonding and grounding......

Bonding and grounding are two often misunderstood concepts.

To start, we will look at grounding first. In the 120 volt electrical supply system for your pool pump there are 3 wires. Hot, Neutral, and ground. The hot and Neutral serve to move power from the source and back to the source so the pump can run. The ground wire in this system serves only as a non resistive conductive path back to source should something happen internally in the pump. For example, if, for some reason, the hot wire came in contact with the motor housing, the housing could become energized. Without the ground present, the housing could sit there waiting to shock any unsuspecting person or animal who happened to touch it. You would be the conductor to ground. Ground being the ground you are standing on. Now, because the resistive properties of the ground you are standing on are too high for the current to short circuit back to the source, it would most likely not trip the overcurrent protection (fuse, breaker). A couple of times here I have referred to "source". This is the power company transformer on the pole out at the street. The hot and neutral connections are both on this transformer and the returning current wants to get back to what is called the center tap on the transformer either via the grounding system or the neutral system. If there is a ground wire present in the circuit, the hot wire coming in contact with the motor housing would immediately trip the overcurrent protection as there would be a dead short in the system.

Bonding. The really mis-understood concept.
Have you ever experienced a static shock?...You know, you shuffle your feet across a carpet in the dry season and touch a metal doorknob. If you were bonded to that doorknob when you shuffled across the floor you would not have felt the shock when you touched it. Everything in the universe has what is referred to as electrical potential. Humans have a certain potential, a piece of steel has its own potential, water its own, etc, etc, etc. Most times this potential is not different enough to feel it. When you shuffle your feet on the carpet though, your potential changes from that of the doorknob. When you get close enough to the doorknob though both you and the doorknob want to get to the same potential. when that happens, a spark jumps the gap and evens out the potential. Fortunately there is little amperage behind it so there is no chance of getting electrocuted and since the event is a one time discharge you just dismis it. Now, lets look at your pool. your pool pump is grounded back to the source thru the ground wire. But, it still is at some level of electrical potential. Your pool water is at some other level of potential, your heater at its own level, heck, the ground you are standing on is at some level of potential. This means that all of the items in the vicinity have some varying degree of electrical potential. Under most circumstances these potentials are so close to each other that you never feel any kind of shock. however, every once in a while something happens to change the potential of one of the items. It could be a stray voltage induced from an underground electrical service, It could be a slight resistive leakage of current in your pumping system. What ever it is there is a potential difference. Now imagine you are getting out of the pool and as you touch the metal side of the pool you get the shock of your life. Hopefully not enough to kill you but a good shot none-the-less. Guess what? You just became the bonding conductor in the system. Had all of the components in the system been bonded together by the #8 bonding wire you never would have felt it. The wire is a non-resistive path between all of the components and since electricity is lazy, it will take the least resistive path. This bonding system will also protect you if you were standing on the ground and decided to touch the water to see how warm it is. If the bond is in place there would be no potential difference between the water and the ground even if there were a stray current floating around.

Hopefully this helps clear some of this up

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