Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 02-18-2009, 09:18 PM   #1
DIY'er
 
jamiedolan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Neenah, Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 2,032
Blog Entries: 2
Share |
Default

Ground connection / Bonding in EMT


HI;

This has happened to me, with 10awg, and I wasn't positive what to do, so I pigtailed and bonded with the 10awg ground. I think I am going to run into the same issue in my house, but will likely have a 6awg ground in the conduit, becuase I have been pulling a 6awg for the fault path for sub panels, I know it is more than is required, but I have 6, I have 10 also... But I would still like to know the proper way to do this regardless of the gage.

If I have a pull box that has multiple conduits in it and I have a 6awg ground pass through the box without a junction, but I have 12awg circuit that junctions in that box via other conduits, do I have to break the 6awg and bond that to the box and pig tail off of that?

Thanks
Jamie

__________________
Jamie Dolan - Neenah, WI
Jamie Dolan Paw Dogs
Need Help Uploading Photos? Click here.
jamiedolan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2009, 09:24 PM   #2
Electrician
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Connecticut, Litchfield
Posts: 2,015
Default

Ground connection / Bonding in EMT


I would not even pull a ground wire in EMT. great answer huh?

chris75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2009, 09:28 PM   #3
DIY'er
 
jamiedolan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Neenah, Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 2,032
Blog Entries: 2
Default

Ground connection / Bonding in EMT


Quote:
Originally Posted by chris75 View Post
I would not even pull a ground wire in EMT. great answer huh?
That would make it alot easier.

Do you think it is safe to use EMT as your fault path even for a sub panel or a hot tub if your EMT is put together securely?

Jamie
__________________
Jamie Dolan - Neenah, WI
Jamie Dolan Paw Dogs
Need Help Uploading Photos? Click here.
jamiedolan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2009, 09:29 PM   #4
My License Ain't 4 Sale..
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Atlanta, Ga/Hamilton, Al
Posts: 1,813
Default

Ground connection / Bonding in EMT


I'd just pull a #10 ground and bond with that, but since you didn't, you could use one of these:
Attached Images
 
InPhase277 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2009, 09:31 PM   #5
Electrician
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Connecticut, Litchfield
Posts: 2,015
Default

Ground connection / Bonding in EMT


Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiedolan View Post
That would make it alot easier.

Do you think it is safe to use EMT as your fault path even for a sub panel or a hot tub if your EMT is put together securely?

Jamie

Hot tubs fall under Article 680, with that said, The emt will actually end up clearing the fault regardless if you install a grounding conductor or not.
chris75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2009, 09:38 PM   #6
DIY'er
 
jamiedolan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Neenah, Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 2,032
Blog Entries: 2
Default

Ground connection / Bonding in EMT


Quote:
Originally Posted by chris75 View Post
Hot tubs fall under Article 680, with that said, The emt will actually end up clearing the fault regardless if you install a grounding conductor or not.
That's right, I just looked at 680 again, they require the insulated grounding conductor.

There is no requirement like that that applies to sub panels or equipment other than tubs/pools is there?

Thanks
Jamie
__________________
Jamie Dolan - Neenah, WI
Jamie Dolan Paw Dogs
Need Help Uploading Photos? Click here.
jamiedolan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2009, 09:42 PM   #7
Electrician
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Connecticut, Litchfield
Posts: 2,015
Default

Ground connection / Bonding in EMT


Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiedolan View Post
That's right, I just looked at 680 again, they require the insulated grounding conductor.
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiedolan View Post
There is no requirement like that that applies to sub panels or equipment other than tubs/pools is there?

Thanks
Jamie
No.
chris75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2009, 09:47 PM   #8
DIY'er
 
jamiedolan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Neenah, Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 2,032
Blog Entries: 2
Default

Ground connection / Bonding in EMT


Quote:
Originally Posted by InPhase277 View Post
I'd just pull a #10 ground and bond with that, but since you didn't, you could use one of these:

Thats good to know how to do that. I ran into the situation with a 12awg feed with a 10awg ground, and I just pigtailed and spliced the ground like I normally would.

When I pull the wire (this week) for my kitchen sub, I was going to pull a 6awg ground, but I can just use a 10 and make it easy (or use the emt as the fault path). It is going to run through a junction box as described with other wires that junction in it, that's really why I asked this question because I wasn't sure what to do in that box.

Thanks

Jamie
__________________
Jamie Dolan - Neenah, WI
Jamie Dolan Paw Dogs
Need Help Uploading Photos? Click here.
jamiedolan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2009, 10:42 PM   #9
My License Ain't 4 Sale..
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Atlanta, Ga/Hamilton, Al
Posts: 1,813
Default

Ground connection / Bonding in EMT


Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiedolan View Post
Thats good to know how to do that. I ran into the situation with a 12awg feed with a 10awg ground, and I just pigtailed and spliced the ground like I normally would.

When I pull the wire (this week) for my kitchen sub, I was going to pull a 6awg ground, but I can just use a 10 and make it easy (or use the emt as the fault path). It is going to run through a junction box as described with other wires that junction in it, that's really why I asked this question because I wasn't sure what to do in that box.

Thanks

Jamie
It would be a shame that you do all that over-the-top electrical work in the place just to go and bastardize it by using the EMT as your ground.
InPhase277 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2009, 10:54 PM   #10
DIY'er
 
jamiedolan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Neenah, Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 2,032
Blog Entries: 2
Default

Ground connection / Bonding in EMT


Quote:
Originally Posted by InPhase277 View Post
It would be a shame that you do all that over-the-top electrical work in the place just to go and bastardize it by using the EMT as your ground.

Using the 10awg for my sub panel ground (vs using 6awg ground)would still be a first class setup, correct?
Basically no advantage in oversizing the ground wire, just as long as the ground wire is there and sized to what the NEC requires?
Thanks
Jamie
__________________
Jamie Dolan - Neenah, WI
Jamie Dolan Paw Dogs
Need Help Uploading Photos? Click here.

Last edited by jamiedolan; 02-18-2009 at 10:58 PM.
jamiedolan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2009, 12:05 AM   #11
UAW SKILLED TRADES
 
Stubbie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kansas
Posts: 4,876
Default

Ground connection / Bonding in EMT


In conduit the ground is sized to the largest amperage circuit. If that is #10 then the ground back to the panel must be #10 but there is no reason for instance if you branch off at a device or jb to a 20 amp circuit device to use #10 you can use #12 spliced to the #10.

If all have is 20 amp circuits then #12 ground is fine anything else serves no purpose at all. Using emt as ground is good only if it is made up correctly and it is a complete emt system....not part emt and part non-metallic cable like nm-b. Your causing yourself a lot of grief using #6 and #10 if it isn't needed.. that frankly is insane overkill.. #6 copper is ground for 200 amp circuit breaker!!! Your wasting good feeder ground and electrode grounding conductor are you really from this planet.....??
__________________
" One nice thing about the NEC articles ... you have lots of choices"

Stubbie

Last edited by Stubbie; 02-19-2009 at 12:09 AM.
Stubbie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2009, 12:40 AM   #12
DIY'er
 
jamiedolan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Neenah, Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 2,032
Blog Entries: 2
Default

Ground connection / Bonding in EMT


Quote:
Originally Posted by Stubbie View Post
In conduit the ground is sized to the largest amperage circuit. If that is #10 then the ground back to the panel must be #10 but there is no reason for instance if you branch off at a device or jb to a 20 amp circuit device to use #10 you can use #12 spliced to the #10.

If all have is 20 amp circuits then #12 ground is fine anything else serves no purpose at all. Using emt as ground is good only if it is made up correctly and it is a complete emt system....not part emt and part non-metallic cable like nm-b. Your causing yourself a lot of grief using #6 and #10 if it isn't needed.. that frankly is insane overkill.. #6 copper is ground for 200 amp circuit breaker!!! Your wasting good feeder ground and electrode grounding conductor are you really from this planet.....??

I was only using 6awg for 60a feed to a sub panel, but it sounds like 10 is fine for this.

I used the 10 ground for a4 wire 10 gage 30a feed to a sub

I thought you needed 4 for 200a service bond / grounding but never more than 6 for ground rods.

My emt systems are complete. I am trying to move away from romex and use all condiut systems, though some spots I do have to transition to smurf and use a ecg in the smurf.

Thanks
Jamie
__________________
Jamie Dolan - Neenah, WI
Jamie Dolan Paw Dogs
Need Help Uploading Photos? Click here.
jamiedolan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2009, 12:46 AM   #13
DIY'er
 
jamiedolan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Neenah, Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 2,032
Blog Entries: 2
Default

Ground connection / Bonding in EMT


Quote:
Originally Posted by Stubbie View Post
In conduit the ground is sized to the largest amperage circuit. If that is #10 then the ground back to the panel must be #10
This is exactly what I have been doing:
20a 12awg get a 12awg ground
30a 10awg gets a 10awg ground
60a 6awg gets a 6awg ground

But now I understand for the 6awg I can use a 10awg ground wire.
Jamie
__________________
Jamie Dolan - Neenah, WI
Jamie Dolan Paw Dogs
Need Help Uploading Photos? Click here.
jamiedolan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2009, 01:26 AM   #14
UAW SKILLED TRADES
 
Stubbie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kansas
Posts: 4,876
Default

Ground connection / Bonding in EMT


Jamie

Don't take me too seriously just poling some fun. Your doing fine.


2/0 200 amp service entrance conductor requires a grounding electrode conductor to the water pipe of #4 copper. NEC table 250.66

Your not sizing grounding electrode conductor....your sizing...equipment grounding conductor which is sized to the protecting circuit breaker. A #6 copper will suffice for a 200 amp breaker protecting a feeder. Use this table below...NEC table 250.122



Or go here and use the calculators


http://www.electrician2.com/calculators/elcal.html
__________________
" One nice thing about the NEC articles ... you have lots of choices"

Stubbie
Stubbie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2009, 07:41 AM   #15
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Nashua, NH, USA
Posts: 6,867
Default

Ground connection / Bonding in EMT


Out of curiosity, why would the grounding conductor need to be insulated?

__________________
Stop wasting time re-adjusting the pattern. Have several lawn sprinklers, one for each pattern.
AllanJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Bonding Ground in Conduit jamiedolan Electrical 5 01-26-2010 10:14 PM
This doesnt seem right. JoulesWinfield Electrical 27 07-26-2009 07:40 PM
Bonding & Ground Rod Question bradsguns Electrical 3 06-13-2008 12:55 PM
Bonding Ground and Neutral matrix733 Electrical 11 11-28-2007 06:22 PM
Subpanel feeder questions Silhanek Electrical 4 03-22-2007 06:30 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.