Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 02-01-2009, 12:39 PM   #1
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Southern Wisconsin
Posts: 171
Share |
Default

Ground Bar


If you add an additional ground bar to the service panel (main disconnect) are you required to add a bonding jumper from the additional grounding bar to the ground/neutral bus or is the connection of the bar to the cabinet sufficient?

Steelhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2009, 01:38 PM   #2
Member
 
dSilanskas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Cape Cod, Massachusetts
Posts: 474
Default

Ground Bar


Quote:
Originally Posted by Steelhead View Post
If you add an additional ground bar to the service panel (main disconnect) are you required to add a bonding jumper from the additional grounding bar to the ground/neutral bus or is the connection of the bar to the cabinet sufficient?


The connection to the cabinet is sufficient

dSilanskas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2009, 02:31 PM   #3
DIY'er
 
jamiedolan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Neenah, Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 2,032
Blog Entries: 2
Default

Ground Bar


Quote:
Originally Posted by dSilanskas View Post
The connection to the cabinet is sufficient
The Machine screws that come with the bar are all that you need correct? Nothing special like the green ground screw right?

Jamie
__________________
Jamie Dolan - Neenah, WI
Jamie Dolan Paw Dogs
Need Help Uploading Photos? Click here.
jamiedolan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2009, 03:32 PM   #4
UAW SKILLED TRADES
 
Stubbie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kansas
Posts: 4,875
Default

Ground Bar


Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiedolan View Post
The Machine screws that come with the bar are all that you need correct? Nothing special like the green ground screw right?

Jamie
Correct, though you need to be careful of a proper ground if you are not installing the ground bar in the factory predrilled holes.
__________________
" One nice thing about the NEC articles ... you have lots of choices"

Stubbie
Stubbie is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2009, 07:45 PM   #5
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Southern Wisconsin
Posts: 171
Default

Ground Bar


Quote:
Originally Posted by Stubbie View Post
Correct, though you need to be careful of a proper ground if you are not installing the ground bar in the factory predrilled holes.
I will scrape/sand off the paint to help ensure a good bond when installing grounding lugs in panels. Would this be what you're talking about when installing grounding bars where there isn't factory holes?
Steelhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2009, 08:49 PM   #6
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 1,202
Default

Ground Bar


I assume that you are talking about a GROUND bar, that will be used only for GROUND conductors, not NEUTRAL conductors.
If the bar is to have both ground AND neutral conductors connected, it MUST be bonded to the main ground/neutral bar, which is bonded to the neutral conductor of the SE.

FW
__________________

KE2KB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2009, 08:56 PM   #7
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Southern Wisconsin
Posts: 171
Default

Ground Bar


Yes, I'm talking about a ground bar only.
Steelhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2009, 09:04 PM   #8
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 1,202
Default

Ground Bar


Quote:
Originally Posted by Steelhead View Post
Yes, I'm talking about a ground bar only.
OK. Had to bring it up though<g>

FW
__________________

KE2KB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2009, 09:12 PM   #9
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South of Boston, MA
Posts: 17,248
Default

Ground Bar


If you were attaching neutrals, what size wire would you need to connect the new bar to the existing bar?
Scuba_Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2009, 09:20 PM   #10
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Southern Wisconsin
Posts: 171
Default

Ground Bar


Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuba_Dave View Post
If you were attaching neutrals, what size wire would you need to connect the new bar to the existing bar?
I was wondering the same thing. I wonder if you can legally do this anyway?
Steelhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2009, 10:08 PM   #11
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 1,202
Default

Ground Bar


Quote:
Originally Posted by Steelhead View Post
I was wondering the same thing. I wonder if you can legally do this anyway?
Legally do what? Connect both neutrals and grounds on the same bus?
Sure you can; if it's in a MAIN SE panel, and not a sub, AND if your buses are bonded to the neutral SE conductor.

I don't know what size wire is needed for bonding two neutral buses. The one in my panel uses a bar, not a wire to bond the two buses.
It should be dependent on the total capacity of the panel, and/or the capacity of the bus.

FW
__________________

KE2KB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2009, 10:09 PM   #12
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South of Boston, MA
Posts: 17,248
Default

Ground Bar


I think it would be the safest thing to do, since somebody down the road might use it for neutrals
Scuba_Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2009, 11:14 PM   #13
UAW SKILLED TRADES
 
Stubbie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kansas
Posts: 4,875
Default

Ground Bar


Wait a minute guys. If you add a 'ground bar' to the main panel (service equipment) that is not on insulated standoffs and is mounted to the metal of the can you can only connect grounds to it.... NO neutrals. You cannot use the metal of the can for a neutral return path nor can you use a jumper between the added ground bar and the factory neutral. This will allow for a parallel return of neutral current if you did. You also must use a mounting connection that allows at least 2 threads in contact with the metal thickness as mandated in NEC 250.8 if you do not use factory mounting holes.
__________________
" One nice thing about the NEC articles ... you have lots of choices"

Stubbie

Last edited by Stubbie; 02-01-2009 at 11:30 PM.
Stubbie is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2009, 06:12 AM   #14
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 1,202
Default

Ground Bar


Quote:
Originally Posted by Stubbie View Post
Wait a minute guys. If you add a 'ground bar' to the main panel (service equipment) that is not on insulated standoffs and is mounted to the metal of the can you can only connect grounds to it.... NO neutrals. You cannot use the metal of the can for a neutral return path nor can you use a jumper between the added ground bar and the factory neutral. This will allow for a parallel return of neutral current if you did. You also must use a mounting connection that allows at least 2 threads in contact with the metal thickness as mandated in NEC 250.8 if you do not use factory mounting holes.
So the factory ground/neutral bar(s) are insulated from the box?
I didn't notice that when I was working in my SE panel.
There is plastic at the ends, so I suppose it is insulated, and there is a bar connecting the two. This is factory installed for grounds and neutrals.

FW
__________________

KE2KB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2009, 06:17 AM   #15
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 1,202
Default

Ground Bar


Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuba_Dave View Post
I think it would be the safest thing to do, since somebody down the road might use it for neutrals
I agree. A lot of DIY'ers won't ever notice that the bus isn't configured for neutrals.

A word of caution here: When adding a bonding conductor between ground/neutral buses, you need to be extremely careful not to get the large conductor near the live SE conductors. Even with the main breaker shut off, there are still exposed live parts at the lugs.
It's too easy to be pulling wires in that area and have one get across the live parts, causing either electrocution, or an arc-flash.

I would run the bonding wire at the opposite end, as far from the main breakers as possible.
You should be able to position the large lugs for the bonding wire at any point on the ground/neutral buses.

FW

__________________

KE2KB is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Bonding Ground in Conduit jamiedolan Electrical 5 01-26-2010 10:14 PM
To ground or not to ground, that is the question cartalker Electrical 8 10-18-2008 10:12 AM
Ground question. mystery guest Electrical 5 07-24-2008 12:47 PM
Older home -- Open Ground issues, please help Toyz Electrical 1 06-15-2008 08:41 AM
Subpanel feeder questions Silhanek Electrical 4 03-22-2007 06:30 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.