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-   -   GFCI problem encountered! (http://www.diychatroom.com/f18/gfci-problem-encountered-33003/)

anthony9887 12-02-2008 08:09 AM

GFCI problem encountered!
 
Hi,

I'm in the process of installing a 15 amp GFCI outlet in the kitchen and noticed the following:

The oulet has a red(hot), black(hot) and white(neutral) wire. At the panel this is connected to two 15 amp breakers. It looks like it running to two seperate outlets. It is possible to connect a GFCI to this outlet? or is better to install a GFCI breaker at the panel? Any suggestions or recommendations is greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Billy_Bob 12-02-2008 08:14 AM

Where is this outlet located and what is it used for?

What is wrong with the existing outlet?

Why are you installing a GFCI at this location?

HouseHelper 12-02-2008 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anthony9887 (Post 192653)
Hi,

I'm in the process of installing a 15 amp GFCI outlet in the kitchen and noticed the following:

The oulet has a red(hot), black(hot) and white(neutral) wire. At the panel this is connected to two 15 amp breakers. It looks like it running to two seperate outlets. It is possible to connect a GFCI to this outlet? or is better to install a GFCI breaker at the panel? Any suggestions or recommendations is greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Sounds like a split kitchen receptacle in Canada. No, a GFCI receptacle will not work here. You will need to use a double pole GFCI breaker instead.

jerryh3 12-02-2008 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HouseHelper (Post 192658)
Sounds like a split kitchen receptacle in Canada. No, a GFCI receptacle will not work here. You will need to use a double pole GFCI breaker instead.

Couldn't a GFCI be used if the circuit was branched off before the GFCI?

joed 12-02-2008 08:37 AM

If this is a kitchen counter circuit in Canada only three options. Use a double pole GFCI breaker or replace circuit with #12 wire and 20 amp T slot GFCI or leave as is. It is grandfathered and is not required to be changed.

Stubbie 12-02-2008 09:58 AM

1 Attachment(s)
I would agree with leave it alone. The only way you can install a gfci receptacle would be if only one of the hot wires is terminated on the receptacle and the other passes through the receptacle box. What you have is a multiwire branch circuit sharing a single neutral.
If both red and black hot wires are terminated then your choices are as Joe and househelper said if you live in Canada. If you live in the US you may leave it alone as 15 amp kitchen counter receptacle branch circuits would have been installed in the 1980's and are grandfathered.. same in Canada. If the kitchen receptacles on this multiwire branch circuit do not have both hot wires terminated on them and you live in the US the two diagrams below show your options.

anthony9887 12-02-2008 10:06 AM

The outlet is located in the kitchen. I wanted to upgrade the existing outlet to GFCI protection. House is only 15 years old and in Canada. Is it easy to install the double pole GFCI breaker or should I have a technician install it.

Thanks guys for you suggestions.

InPhase277 12-02-2008 10:19 AM

Surely this wouldn't count as the two required circuits, would it? I mean, if it terminates into a split wired duplex and goes no further, and is the only thing on the circuit, that would mean the other receptacles in his kitchen would be on different circuits. Maybe this circuit was split wired for a couple of appliances that are no longer there.

Anyway, to the OP, is there only one receptacle in your kitchen, or what?

Stubbie 12-02-2008 10:22 AM

I see we posted at the same time....:) Yes the installation of a gfci is very simple. Biggest mistake people make is connecting the neutral of the branch circuit to the neutral bar....it must connect to the neutral terminal of the gfci and the white pigtail of the gfci then connects to the neutral bar of the panel. So you will need to trace the white neutral to the neutral bar remove it and connect it to the gfci. Turn your main breaker off just to be on the safe side when you install it.

Added note.... double pole gfci's are very expensive....:eek:

Stubbie 12-02-2008 10:25 AM

Inphase

I'm understanding that there are two duplexes involved with this branch circuit.

InPhase277 12-02-2008 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stubbie (Post 192713)
Inphase

I'm understanding that there are two duplexes involved with this branch circuit.

I missed that part. There should be no reason then, that two GFCI receptacles wouldn't work. He just needs to re-wire the neutral at the first box into a pigtail, and pass one circuit through to the next GFCI. The shock he receives from the price of the GFCI breaker may be worse than the shock from not having GFCI protection!

rgsgww 12-02-2008 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InPhase277 (Post 192719)
I missed that part. There should be no reason then, that two GFCI receptacles wouldn't work. He just needs to re-wire the neutral at the first box into a pigtail, and pass one circuit through to the next GFCI. The shock he receives from the price of the GFCI breaker may be worse than the shock from not having GFCI protection!


I thought about getting a double pole 20 amp gfi breaker for an indoor spa (plug in type), after seeing the prices...2 gfcis are the better choice.


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