GFCI In Middle Of Circuit - Electrical - DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum


Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-29-2011, 07:43 PM   #1
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Illinois, Chicago area
Posts: 314
Rewards Points: 268
Default

GFCI in middle of circuit


So, since I'm not working, I volunteered to help a friend remodel his kitchen. Part of the job is replacing all the outlets and switches, as well as installing 3 can lights. The can lights replaced a strip that held 3 small spot lights, so the electric was existing.
The problem is this, when I install the GFCI, the outlet will not reset. When I push the reset button, in instantly trips. Also the lights don't work. IF I re-install the old outlet, all works well. I changed some other outlets on a different circuit, and they work fine. So, wassup?

Advertisement

packer_rich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2011, 08:49 PM   #2
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Pa.
Posts: 123
Rewards Points: 79
Default

GFCI in middle of circuit


are line and loads hooked up properly? what is downstream of gfI?

Advertisement

pokey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2011, 08:50 PM   #3
Electrical Contractor
 
jbfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Newnan GA
Posts: 5,964
Rewards Points: 2,324
Default

GFCI in middle of circuit


If the gfci is correctly installed, then you have a problem somewhere.
Was the old receptacle a gfci?
__________________
Yes I am a Pirate, 200 years too late. "Jimmy Buffett"
jbfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2011, 08:51 PM   #4
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Illinois, Chicago area
Posts: 314
Rewards Points: 268
Default

GFCI in middle of circuit


I double checked the lines and loads and I think they are right. the only load are the 3 can lights we installed. Thanks
packer_rich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2011, 08:56 PM   #5
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Illinois, Chicago area
Posts: 314
Rewards Points: 268
Default

GFCI in middle of circuit


The old receptacle was not gfci. I'm just wondering if the can lights themselves could be the problem. All the wiring for the cans is secured with wire nuts and taped. Solid wire throughout.
packer_rich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2011, 09:00 PM   #6
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Albany, GA
Posts: 295
Rewards Points: 250
Default

GFCI in middle of circuit


Quote:
Originally Posted by packer_rich View Post
I double checked the lines and loads and I think they are right. the only load are the 3 can lights we installed. Thanks
I'd use this troubleshooting approach:

1. remove the GFCI recept completely from the box, and wire the line and load together, then test. If they work, then you've isolated the issue to something to with the GFCI (either defective or installation problem).

2. connect the GFCI recept to the line, but leave the load unhooked and test. See if the GFCI resets and tests correctly.

If step 1 works, but step 2 fails, and you are positive that the lines are connected correctly to the GFCI, then the device is faulty.

If step 1 fails, then you have a wiring problem on the load side (loose connection shorting in one of the cans, possibly).

If step 1 and step 2 work, I would use pigtails to connect the load to the light cans to the incoming line, and to the line side of the GFCI. Light cans do not need to be protected by a GFCI. If you have other receptacles downstream of the GFCI which must also be protected, this may not be option.
clashley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2011, 09:12 PM   #7
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Illinois, Chicago area
Posts: 314
Rewards Points: 268
Default

GFCI in middle of circuit


Thanks for the info. I wiiltry those steps tomorrow. I also googled the GFCI and after a lot of choices, I found a link that showed hooking the load to the line if the load does not need to be protected. Since the lights are the only thing on the load side, I can always do that. But first I'm going to check all my previous connections. Thanks
packer_rich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2011, 09:16 PM   #8
liscenced electrician
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Oregon coast
Posts: 997
Rewards Points: 514
Default

GFCI in middle of circuit


Either you have the line and load backwards, or the nuetral is touching ground in the can lights


Disconnect the gfci and test the continuity between the nuetral and ground. There shouldn't be any if they are downstream of the gfci and the gfci is removed

Last edited by jimmy21; 11-29-2011 at 09:19 PM.
jimmy21 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2011, 10:04 PM   #9
Electrical Contractor
 
jbfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Newnan GA
Posts: 5,964
Rewards Points: 2,324
Default

GFCI in middle of circuit


Quote:
Originally Posted by packer_rich View Post
Thanks for the info. I wiiltry those steps tomorrow. I also googled the GFCI and after a lot of choices, I found a link that showed hooking the load to the line if the load does not need to be protected. Since the lights are the only thing on the load side, I can always do that. But first I'm going to check all my previous connections. Thanks
Not a good idea!

If you truly have a ground fault conition, you are just going to mask the problem for someone to find by accident.

You need to find where the problem is.

Code does not allow light on the kitchen circuits anyway.
__________________
Yes I am a Pirate, 200 years too late. "Jimmy Buffett"
jbfan is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to jbfan For This Useful Post:
mpoulton (11-30-2011)
Old 11-29-2011, 10:18 PM   #10
Member
 
joed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Welland, Ontario
Posts: 8,381
Rewards Points: 3,556
Blog Entries: 4
Default

GFCI in middle of circuit


You can't put lights on the GFCI counter circuits in a kitchen. It is a code violation.
__________________
Do not PM with questions that can be asked in a forum. I will not respond.
joed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2011, 10:48 PM   #11
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Albany, GA
Posts: 295
Rewards Points: 250
Default

GFCI in middle of circuit


Quote:
Originally Posted by joed View Post
You can't put lights on the GFCI counter circuits in a kitchen. It is a code violation.
I don't think the OP is talking about new construction. If the existing wiring was AHJ-compliant at the time of construction, I don't see the problem with adding a safety device to the existing circuit.
clashley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2011, 07:55 AM   #12
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Illinois, Chicago area
Posts: 314
Rewards Points: 268
Default

GFCI in middle of circuit


Thanks for the info. We are just trying to upgrade the counter top outlets to GFCI. We think that this is an improvement and safer than the way it was, with unprotected outlets.
packer_rich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2011, 08:24 AM   #13
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Nashua, NH, USA
Posts: 6,976
Rewards Points: 2,048
Default

GFCI in middle of circuit


Quote:
Originally Posted by packer_rich View Post
Thanks for the info. I wiiltry those steps tomorrow. I also googled the GFCI and after a lot of choices, I found a link that showed hooking the load to the line if the load does not need to be protected. Since the lights are the only thing on the load side, I can always do that. But first I'm going to check all my previous connections. Thanks
More correctly, hooking the downstream continuation wires to the feed wires and line side terminals leaving the load side terminals of the GFCI empty. Perfectly okay when downstream does not need protection or has additional GFCI units.

Before hooking up the downstream continuation wires, it is a good idea to check for and correct any ground fault downstream as described above.
__________________
Forget super sized fries. The Washington Redskins could promote healthy eating with First Lady Obama by choosing a (red skinned) turnip for a mascot.

Last edited by AllanJ; 11-30-2011 at 11:11 AM.
AllanJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2011, 08:35 AM   #14
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 236
Rewards Points: 180
Default

GFCI in middle of circuit


disconnect all wires form breaker box (neutral and hot) and check between neutral and ground with a ohm meter, it should be open.
carmusic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2011, 09:07 AM   #15
Member
 
joed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Welland, Ontario
Posts: 8,381
Rewards Points: 3,556
Blog Entries: 4
Default

GFCI in middle of circuit


Quote:
Originally Posted by clashley View Post
I don't think the OP is talking about new construction. If the existing wiring was AHJ-compliant at the time of construction, I don't see the problem with adding a safety device to the existing circuit.
It's not existing. He is installing new can lights.

Advertisement

__________________
Do not PM with questions that can be asked in a forum. I will not respond.
joed is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Adding GFCI but leaving existing circuit Strugglin Electrical 1 10-26-2011 01:15 PM
GFCI Circuit as2637 Electrical 9 03-27-2009 04:41 PM
20A GFCI on 15A circuit jheavner Electrical 35 10-16-2008 04:45 PM
Can a GFCI protected light be installed into a normal light circuit? boongywoongy Electrical 6 05-19-2008 09:02 PM
GFCI circuit Cossack Electrical 31 03-21-2008 01:34 AM




Top of Page | View New Posts