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Old 09-04-2008, 11:02 PM   #31
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GFCI intermittent nuisance trips


I must say your Dad is certainly imaginative..... Unfortunately I'm losing faith in a rare rf/emi problem..., if you are a perfectionist, you best not cover that wiring up, cause it will never pass an inspection by the codes authority in your area. Might be best to have one of us draw a diagram or have a local professional electrician come in and straighten that wiring out and bring it up to the standards of the NEC. Your Dad means well but he should not be doing any residential wiring projects, as he is a little too resourceful.....

Also that receptacle out at the service panel is not supposed to be used in that manner but I'm sure you know that.

I'm not sure how much wiring your dad has done at the home since you started this project with the porch but I would be suspect of most of it and I would take a look at it asap. You also seem to be a tad bit unsure about residential wiring so might be a good time to locate someone who can help you out if the budget doesn't support an electrician.

So my best response at this point is that all that wiring needs to be redone by someone knowledgable in residential wiring and once that has been done my guess is your gfci problem is going to go away. Until you do that your going to continue to chase your tail....

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Old 09-04-2008, 11:44 PM   #32
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After seeing the pics I know what the problem is... See post #2 also.
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Old 09-05-2008, 09:44 AM   #33
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Hello Joey

Thought I would stop back in and just say that is not the worst wiring that Silk has ever seen...he probably forgot to take his medication yesterday...

Humor aside don't replace the gfci breaker that is not your problem. And the fixtures are fine those are not the type I was referring. It appears you have a cable running from the old porch light box to the new flood light box.

Is that flood light on the gfci breaker circuit that is tripping? Remember the neutral wire is not switched but is monitored by the gfci breaker.....

EDIT: Might as well go out in left field and give you my thoughts. When you plug the porch into the gfci circuit you get an immediate trip of the gfci. This tells me your dad has a neutral to ground fault in his wiring splices somewhere, generally a hot wire to ground will trip the circuit breaker on the the branch circuit being served. Odds are a neutral to ground fault. Second that cable to the flood lights splits the fluorescents and if there is an rf/emi issue that is where its likely coming from with your intermittant problem. So in my opinion you have 2 issues a wiring fault in the circuit to the fluorescents causing the instant trip of the gfci and a possible rf/emi issue occuring in the cable to the flood lights.

Last edited by Stubbie; 09-05-2008 at 10:02 AM.
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Old 09-05-2008, 11:16 AM   #34
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I agree with Chris and Stubbie. I would be looking for a wiring error. A ground touching a neutral somewhere.

In your pictures I am seeing to many code violations and wiring errors to even start listing them. I seriously think you need an electrician to come in and do entire job correctly.
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Old 09-05-2008, 04:37 PM   #35
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Hello Joey

Thought I would stop back in and just say that is not the worst wiring that Silk has ever seen...he probably forgot to take his medication yesterday...
.
Your right, it's not the worst. I was feeling a little testy last night.
The worst was someone wiring 2x4 lay-in trouffer lights with indoor telephone cable, although they were thinking enough to double up the wires

The weekend is here so I will be back on my meds shortly
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Old 09-05-2008, 08:32 PM   #36
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Okay, since no one else is going to ask, what is up with all the taped splices?
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Old 09-05-2008, 11:33 PM   #37
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It was brought up earlier Chris..I think the first page somewhere. I would almost bet dollars to donuts that taped splice after the switch for the fluorescents is where the fault is located. Maybe it was the use of the 3-ways instead of single poles that steered Dad into doing that....who knows? For the life of me I don't understand the tapped splice and JB before the switch...thats just funny....
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Old 09-06-2008, 09:40 AM   #38
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I kind of like the wire going into the water pipe.
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Old 09-06-2008, 12:36 PM   #39
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I kind of like the wire going into the water pipe.
That should be water PIPES. And he saved a lot of money on staples.
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Old 09-06-2008, 07:19 PM   #40
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****UPDATE****

Harr harr harr you guys are too funny . Okay problem solved. We went back in and removed the splices (which had wire nuts on the wires) with the vinyl tape. We also removed the 3-way switches and replaced them with single pole switches. We also added a third switch, moved the junction box, removed the temporary 3-prong plug connection, added a outdoor receptacle and wired the line in to the external plug and from there brought the power into the porch. From there we ran two separate lines from the receptacle to the junction box. When we added the third switch, we split the power at the junction box and ran power to the lights, one run to one side of the porch and the other line to the other side, then we took the other power line and split it with one powering the fan and the other supplying the other two receptacles. After all of that we figured that our problem was over, right....? Nope!! I went and got a replacement GFCI breaker and removed the old breaker in the house (which the old porch light was not on) and installed the new one. Mind you that GFCI breaker was twenty plus years old and while removing the old breaker I noticed that the original installer only had about 1/8" of wire stripped and in the terminal, that may have been the whole problem. Anyway after that, no more problem. Whew!! Glad that is over.

So in the end, after we all got our butts kicked it was the GFCI breaker or improper installation and not the wiring , so my dad isn't totally gone. Thank you to everyone for the assistance. I have included some new pictures of the changes.

Just wondering about the reference to the water pipe... don't have a clue what you are talking about.




No more splices... and different switches, plus moved the junction box.



Porch isn't plugged in anymore, added outdoor receptacle too.



Now we just gotta close it all in.



... here's the culprit. Got the model number just in-case anybody wanted to see how old this this is.




Here is the site before...



... and here is the nearly complete project.

~~Joey~~
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Old 09-06-2008, 07:29 PM   #41
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I kind of like the wire going into the water pipe.

Ahh! I get it now, you are referring to the line to the sump that is running in the PVC. That was my dad's ingenuity at work. I am glad he thought to do that too. Recently had to replace the sump and we replaced the wire in the process, just tied the old wire to the new, and lickety-spilt pulled the new wire through, no digging required, not to mention that PVC protects the wire from accidental shovel intrusions and moisture issues. Glad you guys liked that. L8r g8r's thanks again.

~~Joey~~
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Old 09-06-2008, 07:44 PM   #42
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I hope you and your Dad have many more projects together. I just don't know what to say other than that.
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Old 09-06-2008, 08:59 PM   #43
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I hope you and your Dad have many more projects together. I just don't know what to say other than that.

Yep, good to see that your still bonding... now just learn about grounding and you'll be all set.
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Old 09-07-2008, 10:18 AM   #44
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Ahh! I get it now, you are referring to the line to the sump that is running in the PVC. That was my dad's ingenuity at work. I am glad he thought to do that too.
~~Joey~~
I was kidding about liking the PVC water pipe. Although it works, it is a code violation. They make electrical PVC conduit.

But it's great that you found the problem and have things working. And removed the splices not in boxes. Those can be dangerous by causing fires.

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