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Old 02-28-2009, 09:55 AM   #31
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GFCI feeing subpanel question


If it is really hard to get it burried deep enough you can use ridgid conduit and it doesn't have to go as deep 6" in most cases I think?

Last night I saw ridgid at lowes on super sale around $12 per 10' of 1".

If you can get deeper use PVC.

Jamie

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Old 02-28-2009, 09:57 AM   #32
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With the gfci tripping lastnight even with the breakers off in the sub panel really puzzled me because it didn't do that before. But I will disconnect everything and check for shorts in all the wires. I did just check the wiring that is buried and it is 6/3 but rated for indoors not the nm-b. This was like this when I bought the house. Even though the indoor rated wire is shielded with a thin plastic-like housing will it not be waterproof enough?
Also when replacing, Change to a modern disconnect On the house or get rid of it.
Jamie
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Old 02-28-2009, 10:02 AM   #33
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sorry, i guess i got that backwards. But it is the indoor rated. I dug up a few feet of the wire a few months ago when the gfci was randomly tripping and it looked like it was around 12-15" buried. I may do they tests anyhow just to see if the wires are shorted. I'll post as soon as i find out and I guess i'll price some wire. Thanks
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Old 02-28-2009, 10:06 AM   #34
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If it is really hard to get it burried deep enough you can use ridgid conduit and it doesn't have to go as deep 6" in most cases I think?
Jamie
GFCI protected 20a circuit before going into the trench you can go 12" down for direct burial NMB-UF uf = underground feed I think

As far as conduit (grey not white) you would need to cover it with concrete at shallower depths. I'm not sure of the exact measurements or the depth of the concrete. This also depends upon what is over the trench - sidewalk, driveway etc
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Old 02-28-2009, 10:12 AM   #35
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Also when replacing, Change to a modern disconnect On the house or get rid of it.
Jamie
I agree Jamie but with a detached garage best to just get rid of it and put a disconnect at the garage IMO....
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Old 02-28-2009, 10:37 AM   #36
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GFCI protected 20a circuit before going into the trench you can go 12" down for direct burial NMB-UF uf = underground feed I think

As far as conduit (grey not white) you would need to cover it with concrete at shallower depths. I'm not sure of the exact measurements or the depth of the concrete. This also depends upon what is over the trench - sidewalk, driveway etc
Looked it up, in a trench Ridgid (RMC) only needs to be buried 6". It's really tough stuff.

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Old 02-28-2009, 10:49 AM   #37
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I agree Jamie but with a detached garage best to just get rid of it and put a disconnect at the garage IMO....
That's what I did at my parents (dc in garage), A Sub panel in the basement fed EMT to a junction box on a inside wall where it transitions to ENT that is buried to the garage. In the garage I used a 6 space MLO. I installed a 60A breaker and backfed it, installed a hold down kit. Installed a ground bar that was bonded to the box. The panel had an isolated neutral bar. Installed a couple breakers for branch circuits. Ran all EMT in the garage.

The wire is a continous 4 wire feed (except for the ground which I had to break for bonding) to the garage from the sub panel.

I also ran a switch loop back to the house, I ran continous pieces of THHN from the light / power source in the garage, through EMT, passed it through the garage panel, through the ENT underground, then it ran in EMT for a short distance in an exposed area (in the crawl space), and went up the wall the last 5 feet or so in a piece of Smurf. I was proud of doing that switch loop with no junctions.

Just thought I would mention this here for the sake of the OP. It seems like a nice clean way to do a garage sub, and fairly inexpensive.

Jamie
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Old 02-28-2009, 01:07 PM   #38
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That's what I did at my parents (dc in garage), A Sub panel in the basement fed EMT to a junction box on a inside wall where it transitions to ENT that is buried to the garage. In the garage I used a 6 space MLO.
Jamie

ENT cannot be direct buried. See Nec 362.12(5)
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Old 02-28-2009, 01:16 PM   #39
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Jamie

ENT cannot be direct buried. See Nec 362.12(5)

I have been calling it the wrong thing: ( I mix up my terms once in a while, I need to work on that because I wouldn't want someone to misunderstand what I meant)

GFCI feeing subpanel question-034481011958.jpg

It is RNC that is buried to my parent's garage as shown in the above photo.

When I was talking about RMC, This is what I meant:
Name:  8166480.jpg
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So does the term ENT only apply to what I call Smurf? (blue flexible stuff that I use in non-exposed indoor work)?

Is this the only thing called ENT:

Name:  034481231820md.jpg
Views: 78
Size:  3.8 KB


Thanks
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Old 02-28-2009, 01:32 PM   #40
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300.5 lists the burial depths allowed
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Old 02-28-2009, 01:35 PM   #41
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If I use rigid conduit does the wire still need to be 6/3 UF for outdoors only?
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Old 02-28-2009, 01:43 PM   #42
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If I use rigid conduit does the wire still need to be 6/3 UF for outdoors only?
No you would use thwn individual insulated wire in the conduit. Personally you would be better off in my opinion to dig or trench to 18 inches and install sch 40 rnmc (rigid non metallic conduit) it is much easier to work with and lots cheaper and frankly better suited for direct burial in a DIY situation..

Jamie

I figured you had probably just miss spoken....
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Old 02-28-2009, 03:45 PM   #43
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Is it legal and what is needed if I wanted to use a couple wooden poles to run electric wire through the air to the garage?
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Old 02-28-2009, 04:11 PM   #44
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BTW, I disconnected the 4 wires in the garage 2 hots, neut, and grnd from the feeder and my gfci still tripped, so I disconnected the 4 feeder wires at the disconnect going to the garage (isolating the disconnect to subpanel circuit) and the gfci did NOT trip. So I got my cheap cen-tech multimeter (my good meter is at work) and checked resistance on the 4 wires, depending on which lead (black and red) I put on each wire on the 200k setting, I would get a reading of around 10.2 this depending on if i connected the red lead of meter to the white wire and black to the ground. Now if I switched my leads over I had to jump up to the 2000k to get a resistance value. Almost like checking a diode, high resistance one way and low the other. But it seems to me either way I went if the wires were not shorted it should have read infinity. We did have a very hard rain yesterday and has rained today also. Maybe they are all shorting through the wetness in the ground somewhere. And this was like this in all scenarios checking all 4 wires with each other. No doubt I'm going to replace that wire though and do it right.
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Old 02-28-2009, 04:14 PM   #45
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Is it legal and what is needed if I wanted to use a couple wooden poles to run electric wire through the air to the garage?

Burried is cheaper, easier, and safer. IMO.
Jamie

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