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Old 10-15-2012, 09:49 PM   #1
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gfci breaker tripping


hi.i have double pole 15 A gfci breaker and i wired 2 split oulets using 14x3 wire. as soon as plug anything the breaker trip.

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Old 10-15-2012, 11:12 PM   #2
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gfci breaker tripping


I'd bet money that you wired the neutral from the receptacles to the neutral bar in the panel. It needs to go to the neutral terminal on the breaker, and the white wire from the breaker goes to the neutral bar in the panel.

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Old 10-16-2012, 06:48 AM   #3
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gfci breaker tripping


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Originally Posted by mpoulton View Post
I'd bet money that you wired the neutral from the receptacles to the neutral bar in the panel. It needs to go to the neutral terminal on the breaker, and the white wire from the breaker goes to the neutral bar in the panel.
yep....

Hey poulton....I thought that on the double GFIC, you couldn't do spit outlets like that since the load on one side would not be the same as the other? In other words...the double GFIC is for 240Vac applications only.

Enquiring minds want to know..........
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Old 10-16-2012, 07:00 AM   #4
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gfci breaker tripping


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yep....

Hey poulton....I thought that on the double GFIC, you couldn't do spit outlets like that since the load on one side would not be the same as the other? In other words...the double GFIC is for 240Vac applications only.

Enquiring minds want to know..........
Will agree with this. MWBC will not work with double pole GFCI breakers.

The imbalanced load will trip every time, as ddawg described.
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Old 10-16-2012, 11:52 AM   #5
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gfci breaker tripping


No, you definitely can do a MWBC with a double pole GFCI. Think about a 120/240V hot tub installation - they all have both 120V and 240V loads. Also, otherwise the neutral terminal on the breaker would be useless. Double pole GFCI's run all three conductors (both hots and neutral) through the current sensor. That way, the breaker analyzes the net current on all three wires, not just the two hots, to determine if there is "missing" current greater than 5mA. This circuit will definitely work if wired correctly.

The other possible reason for the tripping could be an inadvertent connection between neutral and ground somewhere on the circuit.
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Old 10-16-2012, 12:31 PM   #6
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I don't (or haven't seen) a hot tub with 120v, in general they are 240v with a transformer to run low voltage, as in controls and lights.

MWBC will not work on GFCI double pole breaker.

I will agree that we disagree.
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Old 10-16-2012, 04:01 PM   #7
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gfci breaker tripping


That's funny because a two poke gfci breaker split is actually a code option up here for kitchens. I'll bet you a million dollars it will work. The breakers designed for mwbc operation.
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Old 10-16-2012, 04:26 PM   #8
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gfci breaker tripping


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Originally Posted by Gac66610 View Post
I don't (or haven't seen) a hot tub with 120v, in general they are 240v with a transformer to run low voltage, as in controls and lights.

MWBC will not work on GFCI double pole breaker.

I will agree that we disagree.
It will work, you just don't understand how they work.
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Old 10-16-2012, 04:28 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Gac66610 View Post
Will agree with this. MWBC will not work with double pole GFCI breakers.

The imbalanced load will trip every time, as ddawg described.
What imbalanced load? a double pole GFCI breaker will monitor the two hots and the neutral...
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Old 10-16-2012, 05:26 PM   #10
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gfci breaker tripping


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gac66610 View Post
I don't (or haven't seen) a hot tub with 120v, in general they are 240v with a transformer to run low voltage, as in controls and lights.

MWBC will not work on GFCI double pole breaker.

I will agree that we disagree.
Then you haven't seen many hot tubs, and you have very little experience with double pole GFCI's. This isn't a matter of personal opinion to disagree about - it's fact. I've use several 2-pole GFCI's for 120/240V loads, and I have seen many more 2- and 3-pole GFCI's used for loads that include a neutral. It's hard to believe that you would think this if you've ever even handled one of the breakers. They have a neutral terminal right there on the breaker. That would be entirely useless if it couldn't operate with line-to-neutral loads. If you need more evidence, Siemens' product literature describes 2-pole GFCI breakers as "120/240V":
https://images.tradeservice.com/gjPi...AE02263_15.pdf
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Old 10-16-2012, 05:30 PM   #11
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gfci breaker tripping


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They have a neutral terminal right there on the breaker. That would be entirely useless if it couldn't operate with line-to-neutral loads.
The GFCI electronics require a neutral connection to function, so even with 240v loads, the GFCI breaker requires a neutral connection. Just pointing this fact out.
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Old 10-16-2012, 05:52 PM   #12
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gfci breaker tripping


Let me see if I understand this correctly.
A 2 pole GFCI breaker will work on a split receptacle with a shared neutral, as in the OP?
Sorry I caused a stir, but everything I theorized with GFCI this should not work.

I stand corrected.

And you are correct, I don't do many hot tubs (happily)
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Old 10-16-2012, 05:55 PM   #13
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gfci breaker tripping


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gac66610 View Post
Let me see if I understand this correctly.
A 2 pole GFCI breaker will work on a split receptacle with a shared neutral, as in the OP?
Sorry I caused a stir, but everything I theorized with GFCI this should not work.

I stand corrected.

And you are correct, I don't do many hot tubs (happily)
Not sure how you are looking at the scenerio, but the breaker will monitor both hots and neutral... This is why they make 2 pole afci breakers as well.
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Old 10-16-2012, 05:58 PM   #14
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gfci breaker tripping


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gac66610 View Post
Sorry I caused a stir, but everything I theorized with GFCI this should not work.


Why wouldn't it work? the GFCI protection is at the beginning of the circuit, so the current out, equals the current in... regardless.


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Old 10-16-2012, 08:47 PM   #15
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gfci breaker tripping


mpoulton is right....and sticky, good diagram.....

It had not occured to me that they would run more than 2 wires through the coil.....but....in reality...you could run a 100 wires through it....as long as the currents going one direction are equal to the currents coming back....no current induced in the toroid....

Which explains why it is so important for the neutral for that ckt to be connected to the neutral lug of the breaker.

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