GFCI-Approved Outlets

firsttimeremode · 09-18-2012, 11:53 AM

Is it true that if you have two outlets in your kitchen, and you install a GFCI outlet in the first box, the wire that jumps from that outlet to the second one (if the circuit ends there) will make the second outlet GFCI protected too? The guy that works the electrical dept at Lowes told me that, he said i didnt need to buy two GFCI outlets for my kitchen because the wire running between them would protect them both since the two are on a dedicated circuit

jbfan · 09-18-2012, 11:59 AM

Yes, if it is wired correctly.
Connect the wire from the panel to the line side, and the wire feeding the 2nd receptacle connected to the load side.

Billy_Bob · 09-18-2012, 01:04 PM

And whatever else the 2nd outlet connects to as well (if anything).

Note that it is common for electric motors to "leak" a bit of electricity to ground. And refrigerators have electric motors in them. So you may not want to do that if the refrigerator outlet is "downstream" from the GFCI outlet. (Or you may come home after being away several days and find all your food spoiled because the GFCI turned off power to the refrigerator.)

Also I think it would be a LOT less frustrating to homeowners if a separate GFCI was installed at each outlet or GFCI breakers were used. Power goes out to a regular looking outlet, then the homeowner checks the breaker and it is fine. Then the "hunt" begins to find that GFCI outlet. In the case of a garage, the GFCI outlet is probably behind a large pile of junk!

orange · 09-18-2012, 01:30 PM

I found this summary of Kitchen counter top electrical requirements which may put your GFCI question into a broader context.

Quote:

Kitchen Receptacles - Code Summary

In the kitchen and eating areas every counter space wider than 12 inches must have a GFI protected plug, in general all kitchen counter top plugs should be GFI protected. Countertop receptacles shall be installed so that no point along the wall is more than 24" measured horizontally from a receptacle outlet in that space. Peninsular bars and islands 12" or wider shall have at least one receptacle. Exception: Tennessee Code in dwelling unit’s section states, “The installation of receptacles for island counter spaces and peninsular counter spaces below the countertop shall be optional.
At least two 20-ampere branch circuits are required to feed receptacle outlets for small appliance loads, including refrigeration equipment in the kitchen, pantry, breakfast room, and dining room. These circuits, whether two or more are used, shall NOT supply anything other than receptacles in these areas. Lighting outlets and built-in appliances such as garbage disposals, hood fans, dishwashers, and trash compactors are NOT permitted on these circuits.
Kitchen counter top receptacles must be supplied by at least two small appliance branch circuits.
Kitchen appliance and convenience receptacles must be on 20 amp breakers, and wired with 12 gauge wire.

The source of this is http://www.nojolt.com/residential_el...en-Receptacles

firsttimeremode · 09-18-2012, 01:47 PM

there are six total receptacles in the kitchen area. One under the window in the dining area, one behind the stove, two over the countertop, one over a small countertop next to the stove, and one for the refrigerator. The two over the sink counter are on a dedicated circuit, the fridge is on a dedicated circuit, and the rest are all on one circuit with the light. If i put a GFCI in one outlet over the sink, then both of those would be protected and thats all that is required, right? the ones by the stove, fridge, and dining room arent near any water so they shouldnt be GFCI required

Code05 · 09-18-2012, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by firsttimeremode

there are six total receptacles in the kitchen area. One under the window in the dining area, one behind the stove, two over the countertop, one over a small countertop next to the stove, and one for the refrigerator. The two over the sink counter are on a dedicated circuit, the fridge is on a dedicated circuit, and the rest are all on one circuit with the light. If i put a GFCI in one outlet over the sink, then both of those would be protected and thats all that is required, right? the ones by the stove, fridge, and dining room arent near any water so they shouldnt be GFCI required

Not legal. Kitchen countertop and wall receptacles cannot be on the same circuit as lights.

firsttimeremode · 09-18-2012, 02:04 PM

its not legal to have three receptacles and a light on one circuit? Since when? Even my bedroom is that way, its all on one circuit. THe plug behind the stove is for the stove clock, the 220 plug is coming up through the floor. the others are just normal receptacles wired with 12/2 romex.
by the way, thats factory. The only electric that wont be factory in this trailer is some that the previous owner added for an outdoor addition of some sort, and the dryer and stove plug that i will have to add since someone stole mine

electures · 09-18-2012, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by firsttimeremode

its not legal to have three receptacles and a light on one circuit? Since when? Even my bedroom is that way, its all on one circuit. THe plug behind the stove is for the stove clock, the 220 plug is coming up through the floor. the others are just normal receptacles wired with 12/2 romex.
by the way, thats factory. The only electric that wont be factory in this trailer is some that the previous owner added for an outdoor addition of some sort, and the dryer and stove plug that i will have to add since someone stole mine

Can't have lighting on the small appliance branch circuits.

firsttimeremode · 09-18-2012, 02:27 PM

oh well, they work and the builders thought it was good enough, so it works for me. i do not intend to rip out any paneling that i dont have to, and as far as i can see only one panel needs pulled off, and hopefully we can put it back after repairs are made.

andrew79 · 09-18-2012, 03:06 PM

If your just changing devices you don't have to redo wiring. Although it is a good idea

frenchelectrican · 09-19-2012, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by firsttimeremode

its not legal to have three receptacles and a light on one circuit? Since when? Even my bedroom is that way, its all on one circuit. THe plug behind the stove is for the stove clock, the 220 plug is coming up through the floor. the others are just normal receptacles wired with 12/2 romex.
by the way, thats factory. The only electric that wont be factory in this trailer is some that the previous owner added for an outdoor addition of some sort, and the dryer and stove plug that i will have to add since someone stole mine

If this mobile home there are some specfic rules they have to follow plus the NEC codes.

I know few moble home done that like that fashion as you describing but that is on older than 1990 after 1990 they ran it seperated.

And be aware that with stove and dryer plugs on mobile home always be 4 wire format so they will be differnt than common 3 wire recpetales for stove et dryers.

Merci,
Marc

firsttimeremode · 09-19-2012, 08:56 AM

i use the normal receptacles for dryer and stove that come up through the floor. Its the same as it was in every other trailer ive ever been in. And yes, it is a lot older than 1990, its a 1979

Billy_Bob · 09-19-2012, 11:51 AM

One shock danger of using handheld electrical appliances is using them near something which is metal and grounded. Like a sink, water faucet, or kitchen range are likely to be grounded.

And then you use a handheld appliance which is shocking you due to a malfunction and at the same time touch a grounded metal part with the other hand. So that could happen as well with a kitchen range. I would recommend installing a GFCI there as well. You can install it so just that outlet is GFCI protected or install it so anything "downstream" from that is protected too.

Also be sure your wiring is copper. If it is aluminum, ask here what to do.

And you may not be "required" to do anything if no GFCI's were installed when the home was manufactured. But new electrical code requirements are a VERY good thing in that they protect you and your family. With that said, I would install GFCI's in any outdoor outlets, bathrooms, and garage (in addition to the kitchen). And especially if you have a garage with a metal garage door and an electric garage door opener - protect the opener outlet with a GFCI. (A small child was electrocuted by touching a metal garage door which had a malfunctioning opener.)

Good you are doing this!

firsttimeremode · 09-19-2012, 12:14 PM

When i go to look at a house i want to buy, the first thing i do is i dislodge a receptacle and check the wiring. If its aluminum i wont touch the house. If its copper, i put it back and then have the owner open the panel box so i can check that too.

09-18-2012, 11:53 AM	#1
firsttimeremode Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Longview, Texas Posts: 270	GFCI-Approved Outlets Is it true that if you have two outlets in your kitchen, and you install a GFCI outlet in the first box, the wire that jumps from that outlet to the second one (if the circuit ends there) will make the second outlet GFCI protected too? The guy that works the electrical dept at Lowes told me that, he said i didnt need to buy two GFCI outlets for my kitchen because the wire running between them would protect them both since the two are on a dedicated circuit Attached Thumbnails Last edited by firsttimeremode; 09-18-2012 at 12:00 PM.

09-18-2012, 11:59 AM	#2
jbfan Electrical Contractor Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Newnan GA Posts: 5,081	GFCI-Approved Outlets Yes, if it is wired correctly. Connect the wire from the panel to the line side, and the wire feeding the 2nd receptacle connected to the load side. __________________ Yes I am a Pirate, 200 years too late. "Jimmy Buffett"

09-18-2012, 01:04 PM	#3
Billy_Bob Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Oregon Posts: 1,497	GFCI-Approved Outlets And whatever else the 2nd outlet connects to as well (if anything). Note that it is common for electric motors to "leak" a bit of electricity to ground. And refrigerators have electric motors in them. So you may not want to do that if the refrigerator outlet is "downstream" from the GFCI outlet. (Or you may come home after being away several days and find all your food spoiled because the GFCI turned off power to the refrigerator.) Also I think it would be a LOT less frustrating to homeowners if a separate GFCI was installed at each outlet or GFCI breakers were used. Power goes out to a regular looking outlet, then the homeowner checks the breaker and it is fine. Then the "hunt" begins to find that GFCI outlet. In the case of a garage, the GFCI outlet is probably behind a large pile of junk!

09-18-2012, 01:47 PM	#5
firsttimeremode Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Longview, Texas Posts: 270	GFCI-Approved Outlets there are six total receptacles in the kitchen area. One under the window in the dining area, one behind the stove, two over the countertop, one over a small countertop next to the stove, and one for the refrigerator. The two over the sink counter are on a dedicated circuit, the fridge is on a dedicated circuit, and the rest are all on one circuit with the light. If i put a GFCI in one outlet over the sink, then both of those would be protected and thats all that is required, right? the ones by the stove, fridge, and dining room arent near any water so they shouldnt be GFCI required

09-18-2012, 02:04 PM	#7
firsttimeremode Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Longview, Texas Posts: 270	GFCI-Approved Outlets its not legal to have three receptacles and a light on one circuit? Since when? Even my bedroom is that way, its all on one circuit. THe plug behind the stove is for the stove clock, the 220 plug is coming up through the floor. the others are just normal receptacles wired with 12/2 romex. by the way, thats factory. The only electric that wont be factory in this trailer is some that the previous owner added for an outdoor addition of some sort, and the dryer and stove plug that i will have to add since someone stole mine Last edited by firsttimeremode; 09-18-2012 at 02:07 PM.

GFCI-Approved Outlets