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slaydemon 05-03-2013 03:11 PM

Generator - Whole House (Kohler/Genarac) HELP!
 
Hey,

Just wanted to get some input on a whole home generator.

House Built: 2009
Square feet: 8000

I've been told by a couple of estimates that a 35-40kw generator is sufficient to run my entire home. I've been looking at the 36kw Generac Quietsource as well as the 38kw Kohler (38RCL). The estimates I received for unit + install for the 36kw Generac was around 30k, while the unit + install cost for a 48kw Kohler was around 33k. (Didnt get an estimate for the 38kw Kohler)

I've been going through these prices and keep telling myself that these install costs seem too high. Anyone can give any input as to a rough estimate of the install costs for these generators? Any advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Speedy Petey 05-03-2013 04:13 PM

NO WAY at all anyone can give you even a WAG as to an estimate based soley on the size of your house and the size of the generator.
What is making you tell yourself that these install costs seem too high???

slaydemon 05-03-2013 04:24 PM

I figured it would be too difficult but i gave it a shot. I feel like they are too high because the Kohler guy is also offering 20kw unit + install for 10k, I figured the 38kw/48kw wouldn't be much more. Thanks for the reply

Speedy Petey 05-03-2013 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slaydemon (Post 1171887)
I figured it would be too difficult but i gave it a shot. I feel like they are too high because the Kohler guy is also offering 20kw unit + install for 10k, I figured the 38kw/48kw wouldn't be much more. Thanks for the reply

You figured way, WAY wrong.
The Kohler guy conveniently neglected to tell you that there is a huge jump after 20kW, ESPECIALLY when you go from the cheap air cooled resi models to the low RPM water cooled models.

r_marcinko 05-03-2013 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slaydemon (Post 1171842)
Hey,

Just wanted to get some input on a whole home generator.

House Built: 2009
Square feet: 8000

I've been told by a couple of estimates that a 35-40kw generator is sufficient to run my entire home. I've been looking at the 36kw Generac Quietsource as well as the 38kw Kohler (38RCL). The estimates I received for unit + install for the 36kw Generac was around 30k, while the unit + install cost for a 48kw Kohler was around 33k. (Didnt get an estimate for the 38kw Kohler)

I've been going through these prices and keep telling myself that these install costs seem too high. Anyone can give any input as to a rough estimate of the install costs for these generators? Any advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Lol, greatest humblebrag of all time?

HVACTECH96 05-03-2013 07:16 PM

big house+big generator = big $ How much is the convience worth to you?

Nailbags 05-03-2013 09:03 PM

why not just isolate a few circuits to run off the generator and just limt your useage to 10,000 watts?
For me I run just some lights and my well. For the cost of what you want how many times per month does your power go out?

wkearney99 05-03-2013 09:04 PM

You don't have your location put in your profile, which makes it difficult to offer location-specific advice.

The jump from a 20kw to a larger unit can be considerable, as 20kw is still air-cooled. The larger ones have a radiator and a water-cooled engine setup. Lots more $$$.

It all depends on what you want powered during the outages. And what loads will be handled. Keeping all 8,000 sqft cool during a sweltering Miami heatwave and you're definitely looking at a larger unit. Or if you've got electric heat during a northern blizzard. So square footage alone won't be enough info.

Philly Master 05-03-2013 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slaydemon (Post 1171842)
Hey,

Just wanted to get some input on a whole home generator.

House Built: 2009
Square feet: 8000

I've been told by a couple of estimates that a 35-40kw generator is sufficient to run my entire home. I've been looking at the 36kw Generac Quietsource as well as the 38kw Kohler (38RCL). The estimates I received for unit + install for the 36kw Generac was around 30k, while the unit + install cost for a 48kw Kohler was around 33k. (Didnt get an estimate for the 38kw Kohler)

I've been going through these prices and keep telling myself that these install costs seem too high. Anyone can give any input as to a rough estimate of the install costs for these generators? Any advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks!


need to know how your house is HEATED , dryer,and hot water ...gas, oil , electric ??

how much AC by the tonage ...

next is there Natural gas or propane available on site ??

A Kolher Generator can only be started the first time by a KOLHER authorized Service person ...anyone can install it ...

gregzoll 05-03-2013 10:40 PM

You really only need to keep the food cold, heat on, a few lights, so you can find your way through the home, until power is restored. You really do not need to power the whole house, as if you had the PoCo live to it. Now of course, you can supplement during the day, by using solar panels on the roof, so that you do not need to run the genset until later in the eve, to help charge the batteries for fall-over from poco to backup, if you opt to place a battery backup system in place also.

It really comes down to how deep is your pocketbook on this project, what is the longest outage that you have had in the past six months, how many outages do you get a month, and is it really something that will help in the resale value of the home, especially if others in your neighborhood have gensets also. Also is there a medical need for the genset to power DME (Durable Medical Equipment), for a person in the home that needs say a O2 regenerator, etc..

Around here, the longest that we have been without power is about 24 hours, and by then you usually are getting stuff iced down out of the ice box & freezer, and deciding if it is worth staying home with no heat if above 40 during the day & night, or in the 80's or higher with high humidity, when you can go to a friend or family members place with the goods (ie electric).

A lot in my area that have grown up with power outages, tend to live with them, and learn to remember what it was like in the days without home computers and dvr's. The wife joked with me, when I put up a OTA antenna in our attic, but if we ever lose our ATT U-Verse feed, we have at least a way to still get local news and information, same with having a radio to pick up am/fm broadcasts.

Speedy Petey 05-04-2013 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philly Master (Post 1172106)
need to know how your house is HEATED , dryer,and hot water ...gas, oil , electric ??

how much AC by the tonage ...

next is there Natural gas or propane available on site ??

True.




Quote:

Originally Posted by Philly Master (Post 1172106)
A Kolher Generator can only be started the first time by a KOLHER authorized Service person ...anyone can install it ...

NOT true.

Philly Master 05-04-2013 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speedy Petey (Post 1172456)




NOT true.


C/P from internet ...

"warranty info again and it turns out that Kohler cannot deny me warranty service if someone other than an authorized dealer/distributor performs that startup function. It does say that if there is an issue during startup, that I would have to pay for a startup service to rectify the problem. It also says that if there is an issue down the road and the system was not installed properly (which is verified during the startup service) that they can deny me warranty coverage. So if you are a DYIer or acting as your own general contractor, fear not on the startup.xxxx'



read what ever Warranty you have ..

Kolher comes out with a laptop and plugs in in ....JUST FYI

Philly Master 05-04-2013 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregzoll (Post 1172115)
You really only need to keep the food cold, heat on, a few lights, so you can find your way through the home, until power is restored. You really do not need to power the whole house, as if you had the PoCo live to it. Now of course, you can supplement during the day, by using solar panels on the roof, so that you do not need to run the genset until later in the eve, to help charge the batteries for fall-over from poco to backup, if you opt to place a battery backup system in place also.

It really comes down to how deep is your pocketbook on this project, what is the longest outage that you have had in the past six months, how many outages do you get a month, and is it really something that will help in the resale value of the home, especially if others in your neighborhood have gensets also. Also is there a medical need for the genset to power DME (Durable Medical Equipment), for a person in the home that needs say a O2 regenerator, etc..

Around here, the longest that we have been without power is about 24 hours, and by then you usually are getting stuff iced down out of the ice box & freezer, and deciding if it is worth staying home with no heat if above 40 during the day & night, or in the 80's or higher with high humidity, when you can go to a friend or family members place with the goods (ie electric).

A lot in my area that have grown up with power outages, tend to live with them, and learn to remember what it was like in the days without home computers and dvr's. The wife joked with me, when I put up a OTA antenna in our attic, but if we ever lose our ATT U-Verse feed, we have at least a way to still get local news and information, same with having a radio to pick up am/fm broadcasts.

LOL with an 8,000 square foot house this is not customary ...LOL .... maybe in the trailer park

slaydemon 05-04-2013 05:40 PM

I live in central NJ, and I have natural gas.

I understand that the higher kw generators are more expensive... but I dont understand the installation charge.
For a 20kw kohler, unit costs 5-6k + another 5-6k for installation
For a 38kw kohler, unit costs 13k + another 18k for installation

Why is the installation charge so much higher for the bigger unit? I understand its bigger and more difficult to install, but over a 3x price jump is alot and I'm curious as to why. Thanks for the help guys

Philly Master 05-04-2013 05:54 PM

One of the things that drive an installation is wire size and distances ....

next biggie is the GAS pipe size ....

20kw is 1 1/4" once you get to about 25 feet ... figure its about 275,000 BTU's at full load

the 35kw is about 577,000 BTU's .. so 2.5" to 3" pipe

next 4 guys can pick up and move a 20kw ... flat ground 30' to 40' or use a hand truck ..

the 35 kw will need maybe a crane to lift it into place depending on location ...and access


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