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-   -   Generac (Siemens) main breaker swap (http://www.diychatroom.com/f18/generac-siemens-main-breaker-swap-179382/)

pdavis41 05-12-2013 01:26 PM

Generac (Siemens) main breaker swap
 
Hello all. Im going to be installing a Generac (siemens) GenReady Load Center soon. I currently have a 100 Amp service and I'm not ready to upgrade the service to 200A right now ($$$).

The main breaker in the load center is a Siemens MBK200A. What I'm wondering is if I can purchase a MBK100A and swap out the 200 until I am ready to upgrade to the 200A service. Just wondering if anyone has done this before or if it is even possible. The information on the panel only goes down to a MBK150A, which is part of my concern.

Thoughts?

MTN REMODEL LLC 05-12-2013 01:47 PM

What is limiting your service.... meter ... service entrance....

Philly Master 05-12-2013 01:51 PM

I would ask you more questions first ..


1) what generator are you going to get to use with this setup ?

pdavis41 05-12-2013 03:27 PM

no generator with it right now. Got the panel without the transfer switch. Figured since I was going to be changing out the panel (old pushmatic 100amp panel right now with numerous double tapped breakers) I would put one in that will allow for it later.

Don't know what is the limiting factor right now. I am going to call ComEd tomorrow and see what the options are. If it isn't too much of a pain, I might just up the service since I have to have them pull the meter anyway for this upgrade (changing where the pipe out of the meter enters the house).

MTN REMODEL LLC 05-12-2013 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdavis41 (Post 1177862)

Don't know what is the limiting factor right now. I am going to call ComEd tomorrow and see what the options are. If it isn't too much of a pain, I might just up the service since I have to have them pull the meter anyway for this upgrade (changing where the pipe out of the meter enters the house).

I think that's really smart.... seems if your service drop is limiting factor... nows a great time to change it out.

Curiosity.... does your meter have the CL200 rating?

Don't know your POCO, but I'll bet they are alot more cooperative/helpfull and less costly than you may think.

I've had the best of luck with POCOs both here in Co and in Cali (the men on the truck... not necessarily the office). (They just gave me a bunch of there meter-locks so I can pull their meter while I'm working on my daughters old FedPacific box... don't worry everybody... we'll soon be changing it out)

Peter

pdavis41 05-12-2013 03:49 PM

Yeah 3 days after we bought the house last summer a tree came down in the back yard on the lines. The guys that came out were great and easy to deal with despite they had been on the job for like 18 hours.

I do want to bury the service at some point. Just not going to do that yet as it is super expensive just for the ComEd fees, not to mention all the landscaping and other work I would have to do.

pdavis41 05-12-2013 04:03 PM

Just went out and checked the meter. Its a CL100 rating on it. Also looking I would guess the mast is 1.5" pipe and the wires to the house don't look big enough. But I will see what they say.

MTN REMODEL LLC 05-12-2013 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdavis41 (Post 1177876)
Yeah 3 days after we bought the house last summer a tree came down in the back yard on the lines. The guys that came out were great and easy to deal with despite they had been on the job for like 18 hours.

I do want to bury the service at some point. Just not going to do that yet as it is super expensive just for the ComEd fees, not to mention all the landscaping and other work I would have to do.

I can understand the underground issue.... we were required by DanaPoint Cali to go lateral/underground on my son's place. It was expensive and time consuming... especially in Cali. The POCO guys were great (gave us this rreally good/strong pull line, timely with on/off because we had to shut down power obviously, and even helped Mike and me backfill our ditch.... but POCO did have their standard charge $900 or so, then backhoe, tamper, asphalt company to redo street, demo saws, a tramper inspector to be sure we were layer tampering @ 350!, conduit, streetsweeper..... If we had not got it all done in one day, there would be another $500 rental for those heavy duty street plates to protect our ditch.

Here's the irony.... Mike's place (and Dana Point) is laced with overhead, and they've made it so expensive no one will be going underground, or doing additions that require underground, and it won't look any different in my kid's lifetime or long after that.

Philly Master 05-13-2013 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdavis41 (Post 1177862)
no generator with it right now. Got the panel without the transfer switch. Figured since I was going to be changing out the panel (old pushmatic 100amp panel right now with numerous double tapped breakers) I would put one in that will allow for it later.

Don't know what is the limiting factor right now. I am going to call ComEd tomorrow and see what the options are. If it isn't too much of a pain, I might just up the service since I have to have them pull the meter anyway for this upgrade (changing where the pipe out of the meter enters the house).



the reason i ask is that the panel really only has the bottom half that gets backed up and it is not something that i would recommend in all cases ... it does have specific applications ..with all the goodies ready to go its almost 500 ...$ buying the Generator with/or without the switch in the 20 kw kit is about $500 difference. and the Nexus switch is and the gen panel are not the same. the gen panel has 30 usable spaces that get backed up not the whole panel.

pdavis41 05-13-2013 09:37 AM

Yep. I have owned the panel for close to a year now. I purchased it for that reason. I don't want to backup all circuits when I eventually get a generator. Just the essential ones.

patmurphey 05-14-2013 11:39 AM

Philly Master,

Does Generac's changeover from Nexus controllers to the new Evolution controllers affect using one of these panels?

Philly Master 05-15-2013 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patmurphey (Post 1179155)
Philly Master,

Does Generac's changeover from Nexus controllers to the new Evolution controllers affect using one of these panels?

NO
one of the big things is in the load shedding .... on the right side the 4 "extra" circuits were 120v and you use a DLM to shed up to 50 amp basically the DLM is a contacter ... the new nexus panel uses 12v to shed so the new DLM kit you must buy at least one to get the new 12 transformer to power the load sheding ...and the DLM's are 12v control circuit

the evolution controller is in the generator not the switch and has a USB port for future upgrades ,

EDIT: 24v transformer ....

patmurphey 05-15-2013 09:35 AM

Thanks, Philly, I looked at the SE switch specs and see that is compatible with Evolution, Nexus and R200 controllers.

I understand the load shed system, I'm using 4 DLMs to make a 10(9)kw unit work in my house (if I'm stupid enough to run the dryer at the same time as the oven during a power outage).

Philly Master 05-15-2013 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patmurphey (Post 1179799)
Thanks, Philly, I looked at the SE switch specs and see that is compatible with Evolution, Nexus and R200 controllers.

I understand the load shed system, I'm using 4 DLMs to make a 10(9)kw unit work in my house (if I'm stupid enough to run the dryer at the same time as the oven during a power outage).


by the purest code you should not be able to ... what is not really talked about is the Generac Nexus is that it works off of HZ not amps or voltage .. and will only try a start that circuit a few times then it will not try any more ...or it locked out...


now the "easy switch" ( the 12 , 14, 16 circuit ones )may be a better option for you that way your in code compliance and you can turn breakers on and off ...as you see fit

patmurphey 05-15-2013 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philly Master (Post 1179804)
by the purest code you should not be able to ...

...now the "easy switch" ( the 12 , 14, 16 circuit ones )may be a better option for you that way your in code compliance and you can turn breakers on and off ...as you see fit

I successfuly demonstrated to the electrical inpector that the electric loads in my 2000 sq ft house combined with the 4 DLMs on the dryer, the oven, a garage subpanel (not being used to capacity) and a combined 240 breaker serving 120v convection M/W and a larger roonm 120v A/C, met all code standards. During load testing, the oven and dryer with daytime nominal loads gave a nice test of 35 amps. I'm using an EnviR load monitor with Meniscus software to verify my decision. In the 30 days since I installed the monitor, only once did I exceed 6kw when my wife ran the dryer while the oven and lots of night time lighting turned on. The EnviR monitor reads often enough to catch enough of the [refrigerator]compressor startup spikes to understand the load.

I have an older house and it has a mishmash of circuits that makes a limited number of breakers impractical, even though the load is relatively small. A smaller generator is quieter, less expensive, uses less fuel and more compatible with my gas service - and safe, if well thought out. 200 amp Service Entrance with a 10kw made sense for me and could make sense for some of your customers. The new 11(10)kw model is even better.

Working with my electrcian, we created a drawing with all lights, outlets and appliances along with a spec sheet for the switch, showing how load reduction worked. The inspector was skeptical and required the information before issuing the permit. (I have gas hot water heat, gas hot water, and a gas range top.)

Pat - my apologies to the OP for the side conversation, but it could become relevant to his situation.


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