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Old 07-08-2012, 12:31 PM   #16
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garbage disposal and dishwasher sharing circuit


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Originally Posted by amakarevic View Post
if you can't regulate by code what you can plug into an outlet (how many amps, that is) why is the code being nit-picky about a very nominal rating of an appliance like disposal that can maybe draw 10A once in a blue moon but most of the time will be 1-2A?
Because, these are fastened in place appliances, I honestly don't care if you wire your DW to the GD circuit, you asked if it was code and I gave you the requested information. For all we know, your installation might be code worthy, I have no idea what your DW or GD draws.

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Old 07-08-2012, 12:32 PM   #17
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garbage disposal and dishwasher sharing circuit


is there a mechanism inside an appliance that trips it upon reaching a certain amperage? like an internal breaker. i doubt it. most appliances will try as hard as you put them to, unless they physically disintegrate. the only limitation can be what you can put them to, e.g. a light bulb won't shine to infinity if it is super dark in the room. but a grinder will if you try cutting stone with it unless it falls apart in the process.

so, since it is impossible to regulate what you can hook into an outlet this way, why bother regulate appliances by a nominal maximum amperage ? i agree on minimal amperage, e.g. a washer that will almost always be drawing 17A or so regardless of the load. obviously you can't put it on a 15A circuit
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Old 07-08-2012, 12:39 PM   #18
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is there a mechanism inside an appliance that trips it upon reaching a certain amperage? like an internal breaker. i doubt it.

The garbage disposal contains an internal thermal overload device. And I'm better the dishwasher motor does too.

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so, since it is impossible to regulate what you can hook into an outlet this way, why bother regulate appliances by a nominal maximum amperage ? i agree on minimal amperage, e.g. a washer that will almost always be drawing 17A or so regardless of the load. obviously you can't put it on a 15A circuit
I don't know why you are so against what I'm saying, but again, you asked if it was a code violation, and I gave you the code reference... and again, in your situation, you might be code worthy.... PHEW.....
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Old 07-08-2012, 01:43 PM   #19
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There is now way to regulate what someone decides to plug into a receptacle, but If the item is rated to draw more than 15A, it should have a 20A cord end on it.

When you are talking about appliances, it is a different story. You either have to hardware them.or install a cord on them. To decide how to do this you have to look at the ratings of the appliance.
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Old 07-08-2012, 02:28 PM   #20
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Just follow the code. Garbage disposals and dishwashers (each) shall be on a dedicated 20amp circuit. But, if you're stuck, and don't want to run a circuit all the way back to the breaker panel, then if you put both appliances on the same circuit you may get nuisance tripping of the breaker. (note, if you were to sell the house, the house inspector may require you to eliminate the code violation before selling).
There's never enough time to do it right...yet there's always time to do it over again... (old trade saying)...
Good luck.
(Note: In my experience of the trade, I'd say that a good 60% of all older houses have the dishwasher and the garbage disposal on the same 20 amp circuit...(that doesn't make it right though)).
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Old 07-08-2012, 02:36 PM   #21
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Old 07-08-2012, 02:37 PM   #22
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Old 07-08-2012, 02:38 PM   #23
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garbage disposal and dishwasher sharing circuit


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Just follow the code. Garbage disposals and dishwashers (each) shall be on a dedicated 20amp circuit.
Can you please point to the code section that expressly requires this.
I'll wait.



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(note, if you were to sell the house, the house inspector may require you to eliminate the code violation before selling).
FALSE.
A HI can point something out, and can even make a recommendation, but he CANNOT "require" ANYTHING.
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Old 07-08-2012, 02:52 PM   #24
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Just follow the code. Garbage disposals and dishwashers (each) shall be on a dedicated 20amp circuit.
That simply isn't a fact... You could have both on a single 15 amp circuit if the correct criteria is met....
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Old 07-08-2012, 06:50 PM   #25
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garbage disposal and dishwasher sharing circuit


Exactly. A simple 3-way switch controlling a split-wired outlet can easily do the trick.

When the switch is "down" the DW gets the juice. When the switch is "up" the disposal gets the power.

You now have a circuit with non-coincident loads, and only have to size it according to the largest appliance.

No brainer
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Old 07-08-2012, 07:13 PM   #26
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garbage disposal and dishwasher sharing circuit


From the 2011 NEC:

The requirements of 210.23(A)(2) do not apply to a branch circuit that supplies only fastened-in-place utilization equipment, and where that is the case the entire rating of the branch circuit can be applied to the utilization equipment. For example, a 20-ampere branch circuit dedicated to supplying a waste disposer and a dishwasher is not restricted to either one of the appliances not exceeding 50 percent (10 amperes) of the branch-circuit rating as long as the com- bined load of the two appliances does not exceed 20 amperes.

Every time someone inquires about garbage disposals and dishwashers, people get up in arms and argue, because they can never see the big picture. I myself pointed out the underlined & bolded section a month ago, and everyone still seems to think that it does not apply when it does. Reason being, is that both are not going to be on at the same time on the circuit, and if you want to do it like kbsparky's way, I say go for it, then you can stick by the old rule.
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Old 07-08-2012, 07:17 PM   #27
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garbage disposal and dishwasher sharing circuit


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From the 2011 NEC:

The requirements of 210.23(A)(2) do not apply to a branch circuit that supplies only fastened-in-place utilization equipment, and where that is the case the entire rating of the branch circuit can be applied to the utilization equipment. For example, a 20-ampere branch circuit dedicated to supplying a waste disposer and a dishwasher is not restricted to either one of the appliances not exceeding 50 percent (10 amperes) of the branch-circuit rating as long as the com- bined load of the two appliances does not exceed 20 amperes.

Every time someone inquires about garbage disposals and dishwashers, people get up in arms and argue, because they can never see the big picture. I myself pointed out the underlined & bolded section a month ago, and everyone still seems to think that it does not apply when it does. Reason being, is that both are not going to be on at the same time on the circuit, and if you want to do it like kbsparky's way, I say go for it, then you can stick by the old rule.

Can I ask where that was quoted from?
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Old 07-08-2012, 08:01 PM   #28
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garbage disposal and dishwasher sharing circuit


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(2) Utilization Equipment Fastened in Place. The total
rating of utilization equipment fastened in place, other than
luminaires, shall not exceed 50 percent of the branchcircuit
ampere rating where lighting units, cord-and-plugconnected
utilization equipment not fastened in place, or
both, are also supplied.
I guess if you read it really closely, this rule doesn't address a circuit supplying only utilization equipment fastened in place.

Quote:
Reason being, is that both are not going to be on at the same time on the circuit
This, however, I don't think is the reason. What is going to limit them from being used at the same time? They are used simultaneously all the time in my house.
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Old 07-08-2012, 08:13 PM   #29
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garbage disposal and dishwasher sharing circuit


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Can I ask where that was quoted from?
Explanation text from the NEC 2011 Handbook.
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Old 07-08-2012, 08:22 PM   #30
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Explanation text from the NEC 2011 Handbook.
Ah, just another opinion....

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