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Old 12-25-2011, 01:30 AM   #151
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Florescent ballast, commercial or residential?


ADA doesn't apply to every house ever built.

So you can stop the "...................................." like you're schooling us

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Old 12-25-2011, 01:31 AM   #152
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Want to know a really quick tip in doing the measurements? Get a chalk line, take a measurement at three to four points along the all, then snap the line within the range, but usually the architect will spec out the height they want on the outlets and light switches, regardless what the range is.

If the inspector comes in and finds that the height installed during rough in, is not the same on the blueprints, guess who gets to go around and pull all of those boxes. You the green coffee runner. Better be listening the next time.
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Old 12-25-2011, 01:43 AM   #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jproffer View Post
ADA doesn't apply to every house ever built.

So you can stop the "...................................." like you're schooling us
It applies to houses built after the policy was enacted.

It also applies to all commercial buildings. Its why older target stores for example, had to remodel their bathrooms if they didn't meet ADA etc. Same with schools, other shopping centers, etc. etc.

Also, it had nothing to do with schooling anyone, I was pointing out I already said what you were saying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post
Want to know a really quick tip in doing the measurements? Get a chalk line, take a measurement at three to four points along the all, then snap the line within the range, but usually the architect will spec out the height they want on the outlets and light switches, regardless what the range is.

If the inspector comes in and finds that the height installed during rough in, is not the same on the blueprints, guess who gets to go around and pull all of those boxes. You the green coffee runner. Better be listening the next time.
You follow what's on the blue prints. As long as bottom edge of recepticles is not lower than 12'' from the ground, and as long as light switches are not lower than 43 1/2 inches from the ground, they will conform to ADA. If the blueprints say otherwise for bottom edges, then the entire blueprints are not up to code, and are illegal, which will require a redraw of the schematics.

They have to meet firecode, ada, NEC, WA NEC amendments, and general building code. If any codes are violated, they have to by law have the blueprints redrawn.

For new construction anyways....

In your area as far as electrical work goes, it'd be whatever state or local ammendments to the NEC instead of WA NEC amendments.

EDIT

Also, a little fun fact about Licensed Electricians, at least in WA. They can change elevations of Electrical Fixtures at will if they believe it will conform more to current code. They can also plot out electrical circuits themselves and decide how they want them to look. If it meets building code an electrical inspector cannot argue otherwise for having work that meets or exceeds code.

Same goes for Plumbing systems and Plumbers. Fixture locations are decided, piping routes etc. can be done at a Plumbers discretion per building code. Only thing that HAS to be met per blue prints, are carpentry structures. Such as wall locations, stud locations, etc. etc. etc. Plumbers and Electricians can add studs at will, and remove/replace framing at will to meet plumbing codes. So long as the overal structure meets building code.

Last edited by BigGuy01; 12-25-2011 at 01:51 AM.
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Old 12-25-2011, 01:56 AM   #154
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Florescent ballast, commercial or residential?


Quote:
Originally Posted by BigGuy01 View Post
It applies to houses built after the policy was enacted.

It also applies to all commercial buildings. Its why older target stores for example, had to remodel their bathrooms if they didn't meet ADA etc. Same with schools, other shopping centers, etc. etc..
Um no, incorrect.

Quote:
You follow what's on the blue prints. As long as bottom edge of recepticles is not lower than 12'' from the ground, and as long as light switches are not lower than 43 1/2 inches from the ground, they will conform to ADA. If the blueprints say otherwise for bottom edges, then the entire blueprints are not up to code, and are illegal, which will require a redraw of the schematics.
redraw what? Do you follow what everyone is stating, or just trying to pull stuff out of the air?

Quote:
They have to meet firecode, ada, NEC, WA NEC amendments, and general building code. If any codes are violated, they have to by law have the blueprints redrawn.

For new construction anyways....

In your area as far as electrical work goes, it'd be whatever state or local ammendments to the NEC instead of WA NEC amendments.
Yes, they have to follow various codes. To give you another clue, building blueprints have to be checked off by the building department and engineers will have to approve them, or make changes to the drawings, before anything starts. Also another clue, during the building process, drawings are changed all of the time, outlets are changed also, along with other stuff. You could end up with a drawing looking like the Paris city roadways, by the time the various subs are done making their changes on the fly, due to something happens, or the building owner no longer decided that they needed that extra conference room, or the home owner decided to take that extra bedroom, and now wants a walk-in closet, or home theater room.
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Old 12-25-2011, 01:57 AM   #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post
Um no, incorrect.

redraw what? Do you follow what everyone is stating, or just trying to pull stuff out of the air?

Yes, they have to follow various codes. To give you another clue, building blueprints have to be checked off by the building department and engineers will have to approve them, or make changes to the drawings, before anything starts. Also another clue, during the building process, drawings are changed all of the time, outlets are changed also, along with other stuff. You could end up with a drawing looking like the Paris city roadways, by the time the various subs are done making their changes on the fly, due to something happens, or the building owner no longer decided that they needed that extra conference room, or the home owner decided to take that extra bedroom, and now wants a walk-in closet, or home theater room.
Read above

Mentioned it in my above edit before you posted

EDIT

Engineers only deal with the structure itself.

Electrical Plot Plan will only list where electrical fixtures themselves are located. Electricians (Licensed Electricians who have 10,000+hrs aka An Electrician with a LIcense) can alter their locations as deemed necissary provided it meets Electrical Codes. Same with Licensed Plumbers and Plumbing Fixtures. They can relocate fixtures if they wanted if they feel it would be better suited for the design/location of a room or living area or location. As long as what they do meets building code.

Last edited by BigGuy01; 12-25-2011 at 02:01 AM.
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Old 12-25-2011, 02:08 AM   #156
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Florescent ballast, commercial or residential?


Bigguy, trades can not just come up with changes and make them, especially on a commercial job site. It has to go through a approval process, which is usually no more than the architect, the engineer for that trade, and the GC having a quick chat over a cup of coffee, or a smoke break. Only time that I know of that trades just do what they want, is in a resi build, and at most, the home barely stands up by itself after most builders get done trying to get out of there as quick as possible. Wait until you get to work on a house that is older, and everyone and their brother, and cousin Bubba & other cousin Billy-bob have done everything that they can to practically make the place barely safe structurally, or conditionally safe with electric or mechanicals.

When you have done that, then come back and tell everyone how bad you have it. You have not seen bad, until you get handed a job, that was never done correct from the beginning, or you have a contractor come through, and are told to pull one circuit, due to it is no longer being used, and in turn cut another circuit that is still in use, and you have to stand on the top of a twenty foot ladder splicing a fifty pair communication line into a junction box. Or even better, laying on your back in mud under a home or manufactured home, fixing someone else's problems, or pulling new plumbing, electric, etc.. Even better, going into a attic in the middle of Summer, and the attic is over 130 degrees, to redo a bunch of chewed through electrical wiring.

We all will be here waiting to hear from you.
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Old 12-25-2011, 02:08 AM   #157
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Florescent ballast, commercial or residential?


Quote:
It applies to houses built after the policy was enacted.
OK, I don't know much about commercial buildings, but as far as residential that is just TOTALLY WRONG.


***sighhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh***

The following is NOT just about the post I quoted, or even JUST this thread:

I think you need to take a bit more responsibility in the advice you give. Giving someone mis-information in THIS (the electrical) forum could cost someone their home or worse. There is no shame in saying "I don't know"...or if you think you know, there's no shame in qualifying your answer with a 'disclaimer'..."I think you could do it this way, but I'm not 100% sure so please, for your own sake, wait until someone confirms what I've said"

I'm not trying to put you down, although I'm sure that's how it's coming off...but really, you have to be careful...ESP. here....some people come on here by a google search...they register for the sole purpose of asking one question.........so they ask it, you tell them something that's not as accurate as you think it is, and they run off to do what you told them.......and they burn their house down (if your lucky they ONLY burn their house down).

I know we're supposed to be respectful, and I'm really trying to be...but...it's hard to say what I wanted to say and still have an air of "being respectful", and for that I apologize.
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Old 12-25-2011, 02:11 AM   #158
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Florescent ballast, commercial or residential?


Quote:
Originally Posted by BigGuy01 View Post
Read above

Mentioned it in my above edit before you posted

EDIT

Engineers only deal with the structure itself.
Hope you do not tell the boss that, when you have the hvac engineer standing in front of you.

Quote:
Electrical Plot Plan will only list where electrical fixtures themselves are located. Electricians (Licensed Electricians who have 10,000+hrs aka An Electrician with a LIcense) can alter their locations as deemed necissary provided it meets Electrical Codes. Same with Licensed Plumbers and Plumbing Fixtures. They can relocate fixtures if they wanted if they feel it would be better suited for the design/location of a room or living area or location. As long as what they do meets building code.
If you are a student, then why do you keep telling everyone this? If you have not noticed again, this is a DIY site. Suggest if you want to keep discussing what you can and can not do, and talk about codes, etc, there is the sister site for the trades, or the Mike Holt forum. Been fun, but this is just getting ridiculous at this point.
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Old 12-25-2011, 02:22 AM   #159
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Florescent ballast, commercial or residential?


Quote:
Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post

If you are a student, then why do you keep telling everyone this? If you have not noticed again, this is a DIY site. Suggest if you want to keep discussing what you can and can not do, and talk about codes, etc, there is the sister site for the trades, or the Mike Holt forum. Been fun, but this is just getting ridiculous at this point.
I agree with this due we are about hitting 160 posting here.

Bigguy.,

You can continude in Electrician talk ( that is our sister site )

Merci,
Marc
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Old 12-25-2011, 02:27 AM   #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post
Bigguy, trades can not just come up with changes and make them, especially on a commercial job site. It has to go through a approval process, which is usually no more than the architect, the engineer for that trade, and the GC having a quick chat over a cup of coffee, or a smoke break. Only time that I know of that trades just do what they want, is in a resi build, and at most, the home barely stands up by itself after most builders get done trying to get out of there as quick as possible. Wait until you get to work on a house that is older, and everyone and their brother, and cousin Bubba & other cousin Billy-bob have done everything that they can to practically make the place barely safe structurally, or conditionally safe with electric or mechanicals.

When you have done that, then come back and tell everyone how bad you have it. You have not seen bad, until you get handed a job, that was never done correct from the beginning, or you have a contractor come through, and are told to pull one circuit, due to it is no longer being used, and in turn cut another circuit that is still in use, and you have to stand on the top of a twenty foot ladder splicing a fifty pair communication line into a junction box. Or even better, laying on your back in mud under a home or manufactured home, fixing someone else's problems, or pulling new plumbing, electric, etc.. Even better, going into a attic in the middle of Summer, and the attic is over 130 degrees, to redo a bunch of chewed through electrical wiring.

We all will be here waiting to hear from you.
Everything you just listed outside of climing the 25ft latter (because I pay attention when doing electrical) and going into a 130 degree attic I've done.

If fix F* ups quite a bit, even in class because several particular classmates don't know wth they are doing, I'm usually fixing their screw ups.

Dealing with older homes, I've done enough of it as it is, I've even built a home from the very foundation to the complete structure. I have helped in the repair of 30-60 year old residential structures, and have aided in the repair and maintenance of 30-60 year old commercial structures. My entire training course is repairing and maintaining pre existing systems and structures, to include bringing them to code when required. It is not some BS HS garbage. I am not in High School, I am not in some BS goody boy school. I am in a Federal Funded Training Program and learn to do this kind of work.

In fact, of the crap you listed, I've done all of that but 2 items on your list, TO also add to crawling underneath a house flooded with 11 degree water from rain coming into the crawl space in the middle of november to pull pipes through the subfloor. To include digging 2ft wide 5 1/2 deep trenches to connect a house to its sewer main.

I have had to replace siding, caulking, remodeling an entire houses basement, and back home on break spending most of break fixing wannabe DIY Handymen work because they can't mentally comprehend the difference between a 2x4 and a 2x6 and can't mentally comprehend why you have to have the studs vertically level, and why you can't put 2x4s 24'' apart when its required to be 16 for 2x4s.

I've already dealt with and have had to fix enough wannabe handymen's crap. Thank you very much.

Regarding J,

It actually is true. At least in WASHINGTON, all houses built after ADA rulings, have to conform to ADA, to include counters, etc. etc. Same with Commercial Buildings even. The brand new bill and millenda gates foundation building? Everything in it is ADA complient, because it's a commercial building.

All Commercial Buildings have had to be reorgenized, modified, etc. to conform to ADA, newer buildings have to be build to ADA specs.

Regarding Tradesmen, they absolutely can make modifications on the spot if it needs to be done. In their case it's a phone call away, describe what's going on, 99 out of 100 times it'll be approved, they then go with it. And mark changes on the blue prints.

Engineers and Architects, deal largely with the shape/design of the structure. Individual Mechanical and Electrical systems, are outlined, which can be modified by a Licensed Electrician/Plumber/HVAC-R Tech as needed to conform to codes. They do not rush anything.

Project Supervisors and/or the General Foreman, can make changes on the fly, because they licensed to do it on the job site. They mark and list changes and modifications, and put them in notes for the blueprints, and then redraw the blueprints later to reflect the changes they made. SO long as the don't comprimise design/shape of the building and its structural integrity. I do not know how it is in your state, but in WA, they can, and do do this.

Last edited by BigGuy01; 12-25-2011 at 02:29 AM.
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Old 12-25-2011, 02:28 AM   #161
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Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post
Hope you do not tell the boss that, when you have the hvac engineer standing in front of you.

If you are a student, then why do you keep telling everyone this? If you have not noticed again, this is a DIY site. Suggest if you want to keep discussing what you can and can not do, and talk about codes, etc, there is the sister site for the trades, or the Mike Holt forum. Been fun, but this is just getting ridiculous at this point.
Because you started it.
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Old 12-25-2011, 08:48 AM   #162
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Because you started it.
And that is the last word (or we all hope so).
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Old 12-25-2011, 09:10 AM   #163
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In this thread maybe.....take a look around and you'll find he's not done yet
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Old 12-25-2011, 09:25 AM   #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frenchelectrican View Post
I agree with this due we are about hitting 160 posting here.

Bigguy.,

You can continude in Electrician talk ( that is our sister site )

Merci,
Marc
Come on Marc!

That's like sending the lamb to the slaughter house!
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Old 12-25-2011, 09:27 AM   #165
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There is a wealth of information available here from professionals and experienced handymen. I myself have experience but there isn't a time I go on this board that I don't learn some additional tip or trick to help me with my projects, both home and work related. As long as I keep an open mind I will learn, and I greatly appreciate any advice I have been given. On the other side of that there will always be some posters...or should I say "posers" who think they know everything, brag about their knowledge, whether it be real or not. Those "posers" will never learn anything from this board, except that those of us that know what we are talking about tend to stick together and help those who need it. And some have a lot to learn and until they are willing to learn we tend to eventually ignore them until they actually become a congribution to this board......and I now step down off of my soap box.

Merry Christmas

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