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Old 12-25-2011, 01:06 AM   #136
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Florescent ballast, commercial or residential?


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Originally Posted by BigGuy01 View Post
12'' from the ground. and then the bottom of a light switch box has to be no less than 43 1/2 inches from the ground.
Well 12 inches from AFF level some case it can be too low you have to watch out the ADA requirement so that is the other issue you have to watch for it.

my SOP for receptales useally 16 inch AFF unless noted otherwise and switch and countertop always 46 AFF again noted otherwise.

Merci,
Marc

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Old 12-25-2011, 01:07 AM   #137
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Originally Posted by jproffer View Post
OH...so all residences in WA have to conform to ADA standards??
Well, there are all of those tree hugger's and vegans out there.
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Old 12-25-2011, 01:08 AM   #138
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ada...... On the job sites I've done work at, all the Electricians have always stated the bottom of the box cannot be any lower than 12'' from the ground, and light switches cannot be any lower than 43 1/2'' (bottom of the box) I was told by an Electrician Americans with Disabilities Act required it. Same with toilet seats from the rim of the toilet not being allowed to be any higher than 18'' from the ground. To raise it up you can use a raised toilet seat if its needed. etc.
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Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post
Really, are you sure on that? Do you realize what happens if the person in the home is in a wheelchair, or unable to reach down that fair to plug something into the outlet and are physically unable to bend down.
12'' is the minimum distance from the ground, Electricians, not one, but several have told me this. Reason they gave me why, is ADA.

Also, 43 1/2 inches from the floor, puts a light switch in direct reach of someone with a wheel chair. So does putting an outlet on a wall higher than 12 inches (the bottom of it cannot be lower than 12) puts that electrical receptle in plain reach of someone in a wheel chair. For someone to have to bed over but can't, is a special circumstance, which under ADA, would require prior notification for an Electrician to add, or relocate a recepticle higher. But it cannot be lower than 12''

Last edited by BigGuy01; 12-25-2011 at 01:14 AM.
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Old 12-25-2011, 01:12 AM   #139
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Well, there are all of those tree hugger's and vegans out there.
I see now why the state abbreviation is WA.




If I had to lean that far over to plug something in, I'd say that too.....WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Might as well put it in the da** floor!!
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Old 12-25-2011, 01:14 AM   #140
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12'' is the minimum distance from the ground, Electricians, not one, but several have told me this. Reason they gave me why, is ADA.
Here, maybe this will help you to better understand the requirements:

"
  1. Adult Unobstructed Reach Requirements
    • Electrical outlets and switches, or "receptacles," must comply with "reach ranges" established by ADA in section 308 of the standards. These requirements permit people in wheelchairs to reach the outlets from the front or side. An unobstructed reach means the wheelchair can be placed directly in front of the receptacle or sideways within 10 inches of the receptacle. The receptacle height range for an unobstructed front or side reach is 15 inches minimum from the floor to 48 inches maximum.
    Adult Obstructed Reach Requirements

    • For a forward reach over an obstacle such as a shelf the requirement is 48 inches maximum above the floor for obstacles 20 inches or less in depth, and 44 inches maximum for obstacles 20 to 25 inches deep. For obstructed side reaches, such as over a table or file cabinet, receptacle minimum height is above the obstacle, which is limited to 34 inches high. The maximum receptacle height is 48 inches for obstacles less than 10 inches wide, and 46 inches for obstacles 10 to 24 inches wide.
    Reach Limits for Children

    • The receptacle design reach limits for children are also set by the regulations. These limits apply for any construction that will be used primarily by children. Forward or side reach ranges are established in inches for age groups. For ages 3 and 4, ranges are 20 minimum to 36 maximum. For ages 5 through 8, ranges are 18 minimum to 40 maximum. For ages 9 through 12, ranges are 16 minimum to 44 maximum. For children older than 12 years, use the adult ranges.
    Exceptions

    • The regulations provide for specific exceptions to the reach requirements. For side reaches, an obstruction less than 10 inches wide and 15 inches high does not create an obstructed reach requirement. An example would be reaching a receptacle over a short curb or wall element. A separate exception allows the height of washers and dryers to be 36 inches above a finished floor; the obstructed side reach requirement should be used for receptacle height. There is also an exception for fuel dispensers not related to this article."

Read more: ADA Standards of Electrical Mounting Height | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/info_7736168_ada...#ixzz1hWnaQYGH

And one for you from the Mike Holt forums:
The NEC doesn't really address recep height. A recep. higher than 5'6" doesn't count as a covenience outlet. ADA has codes for units that need to be handicap accessible. For me, make sure you & your helper have the same measuring stick.

http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=86031

Suggest to get reading, vs listening to old timers and those that just got their license, that have not been in the trade for a long time. That 12" is the min. height from the floor, but can be as high as 16", depending on the hammer being used by the electrician. Some do not even have to measure, they can hit the height right every time, and can draw a straight line without a ruler.
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Old 12-25-2011, 01:17 AM   #141
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Florescent ballast, commercial or residential?


Quote:
Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post
Here, maybe this will help you to better understand the requirements:

"
  1. Adult Unobstructed Reach Requirements
    • Electrical outlets and switches, or "receptacles," must comply with "reach ranges" established by ADA in section 308 of the standards. These requirements permit people in wheelchairs to reach the outlets from the front or side. An unobstructed reach means the wheelchair can be placed directly in front of the receptacle or sideways within 10 inches of the receptacle. The receptacle height range for an unobstructed front or side reach is 15 inches minimum from the floor to 48 inches maximum.
    Adult Obstructed Reach Requirements

    • For a forward reach over an obstacle such as a shelf the requirement is 48 inches maximum above the floor for obstacles 20 inches or less in depth, and 44 inches maximum for obstacles 20 to 25 inches deep. For obstructed side reaches, such as over a table or file cabinet, receptacle minimum height is above the obstacle, which is limited to 34 inches high. The maximum receptacle height is 48 inches for obstacles less than 10 inches wide, and 46 inches for obstacles 10 to 24 inches wide.
    Reach Limits for Children

    • The receptacle design reach limits for children are also set by the regulations. These limits apply for any construction that will be used primarily by children. Forward or side reach ranges are established in inches for age groups. For ages 3 and 4, ranges are 20 minimum to 36 maximum. For ages 5 through 8, ranges are 18 minimum to 40 maximum. For ages 9 through 12, ranges are 16 minimum to 44 maximum. For children older than 12 years, use the adult ranges.
    Exceptions

    • The regulations provide for specific exceptions to the reach requirements. For side reaches, an obstruction less than 10 inches wide and 15 inches high does not create an obstructed reach requirement. An example would be reaching a receptacle over a short curb or wall element. A separate exception allows the height of washers and dryers to be 36 inches above a finished floor; the obstructed side reach requirement should be used for receptacle height. There is also an exception for fuel dispensers not related to this article."


And one for you from the Mike Holt forums:
The NEC doesn't really address recep height. A recep. higher than 5'6" doesn't count as a covenience outlet. ADA has codes for units that need to be handicap accessible. For me, make sure you & your helper have the same measuring stick.



Suggest to get reading, vs listening to old timers and those that just got their license, that have not been in the trade for a long time. That 12" is the min. height from the floor, but can be as high as 16", depending on the hammer being used by the electrician. Some do not even have to measure, they can hit the height right every time, and can draw a straight line without a ruler.

SSSOOOOO let's play the measurement game, what is the distance from the bottom edge of a switch to the switch itself?

Now, what is the distance between the bottom edge of a recepticle to the middle?

I know a cheat to the answer of this, I can pull a tape from my garage and check, too. I already know the answer.
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Old 12-25-2011, 01:18 AM   #142
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Florescent ballast, commercial or residential?


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12'' is the minimum distance from the ground
I just want to point something out to you (a moment of weakness)......saying "ground" makes you sound silly.

Obviously it's not from the GROUND (dirt), but I think we all know you mean floor......but even at that.....

Finished floor?
Subfloor?
Floor Joists? (I know that's a stretch)

But really, any height that IS spec'd out is usually assumed to be from the finished floor height, unless otherwise specified.
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Old 12-25-2011, 01:22 AM   #143
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Florescent ballast, commercial or residential?


I just measured 3 outlets in the room I'm in. I can even take pics for you gents too...

Bottom edges of each recepticle, is 12'' from the floor. This house was built in 2003.

Measuring to the top of each recepticle, comes to 17''

To the light switches themselves, that's 46''

HOly crap batman!!!

Putting a recepticle 12'' from the floor (from the bottom of the recepticle) puts it 17'' from the ground, 17 1/2 total! HOLY CRAP!!!

Putting a Light switch bottom edge 43 1/2'' from the floor, puts the switches themselves at exactly........ (drums rolling) 46''!!!!!!!!!
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Old 12-25-2011, 01:23 AM   #144
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Originally Posted by jproffer View Post
I just want to point something out to you (a moment of weakness)......saying "ground" makes you sound silly.

Obviously it's not from the GROUND (dirt), but I think we all know you mean floor......but even at that.....

Finished floor?
Subfloor?
Floor Joists? (I know that's a stretch)

But really, any height that IS spec'd out is usually assumed to be from the finished floor height, unless otherwise specified.
.............
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Old 12-25-2011, 01:24 AM   #145
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Originally Posted by BigGuy01 View Post
SSSOOOOO let's play the measurement game, what is the distance from the bottom edge of a switch to the switch itself?

Now, what is the distance between the bottom edge of a recepticle to the middle?

I know a cheat to the answer of this, I can pull a tape from my garage and check, too. I already know the answer.
Well, do you really need to know? Suggest reading both the ADA codes for your local city, the state, the fed's, and the NEC. But not every house is going to be the same. Some the switches may be lower, same as the outlets may be higher. It is really dependent of the code at the time, and who the house was built for.

What may look as too low or too high for one person, may be okay for the next. Give you another clue on the height, outlets and switches are typically roughed in before any flooring materials are installed, which those are usually the last items in a new home.
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Old 12-25-2011, 01:24 AM   #146
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Florescent ballast, commercial or residential?


Quote:
SSSOOOOO let's play the measurement game, what is the distance from the bottom edge of a switch to the switch itself?

Now, what is the distance between the bottom edge of a recepticle to the middle?

I know a cheat to the answer of this, I can pull a tape from my garage and check, too. I already know the answer.
If you put your devices SO close to either end of that range, that you have to even know the "distance from the bottom to the center/switch", you are putting too much effort into it......just put the whole device in range and you know you're OK
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Old 12-25-2011, 01:26 AM   #147
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Florescent ballast, commercial or residential?


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Originally Posted by BigGuy01 View Post
I just measured 3 outlets in the room I'm in. I can even take pics for you gents too...

Bottom edges of each recepticle, is 12'' from the floor. This house was built in 2003.

Measuring to the top of each recepticle, comes to 17''

To the light switches themselves, that's 46''

HOly crap batman!!!

Putting a recepticle 12'' from the floor (from the bottom of the recepticle) puts it 17'' from the ground, 17 1/2 total! HOLY CRAP!!!

Putting a Light switch bottom edge 43 1/2'' from the floor, puts the switches themselves at exactly........ (drums rolling) 46''!!!!!!!!!
Who installed the outlets, midgets? Another clue, the measurements is the bottom of the boxes, not the device such as outlet or receptacle.
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Old 12-25-2011, 01:27 AM   #148
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Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post
Well, do you really need to know? Suggest reading both the ADA codes for your local city, the state, the fed's, and the NEC. But not every house is going to be the same. Some the switches may be lower, same as the outlets may be higher. It is really dependent of the code at the time, and who the house was built for.

What may look as too low or too high for one person, may be okay for the next. Give you another clue on the height, outlets and switches are typically roughed in before any flooring materials are installed, which those are usually the last items in a new home.
I know, I've helped mark and label outlets and switches for rough in, and helped another classmate pull wires at a workbase sight, and even helped with the plumbing rough-in.

Rough Carpentery, Finish Carpentry, Rough Plumbing, Finish Plumbing, Rough Electrical, Finish Electrical, are all apart of my course of instruction. I have never used google once since I've been on here outside of looking up commercial vs residential water heaters, and outside of looking up Chicago building codes.

Last edited by BigGuy01; 12-25-2011 at 01:37 AM.
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Old 12-25-2011, 01:28 AM   #149
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Originally Posted by BigGuy01 View Post
12'' is the minimum distance from the ground, Electricians, not one, but several have told me this. Reason they gave me why, is ADA.

Also, 43 1/2 inches from the floor, puts a light switch in direct reach of someone with a wheel chair. So does putting an outlet on a wall higher than 12 inches (the bottom of it cannot be lower than 12) puts that electrical receptle in plain reach of someone in a wheel chair. For someone to have to bed over but can't, is a special circumstance, which under ADA, would require prior notification for an Electrician to add, or relocate a recepticle higher. But it cannot be lower than 12''
...........................................
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Old 12-25-2011, 01:29 AM   #150
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Originally Posted by BigGuy01 View Post
ada...... On the job sites I've done work at, all the Electricians have always stated the bottom of the box cannot be any lower than 12'' from the ground, and light switches cannot be any lower than 43 1/2'' (bottom of the box) I was told by an Electrician Americans with Disabilities Act required it. Same with toilet seats from the rim of the toilet not being allowed to be any higher than 18'' from the ground. To raise it up you can use a raised toilet seat if its needed. etc.
................

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