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Florescent ballast, commercial or residential?

55K views 183 replies 14 participants last post by  Oso954 
#1 ·
Yesterday my kitchen light went out (4 - 4 foot, 32 watt T8 lamps about 5 years old). Tested - had power to fixture, no output from the ballast (dead ballast). Also had a cracked tombstone. Stopped at Home Depot this AM and picked up a ballast and a replacement tombstone. GE ballast, the only one they had for 4 T8 lamps. Got home replaced the shunted tombstone and the ballast, light works fine.

Now the hook:
Glanced at the bottom of the instruction sheet and read
"FOR COMMERCIAL USE ONLY, NOT FOR RESIDENTIAL (CONSUMER USE)

What is the difference and is there any problem with using that ballast in a residential fixture?
 
#2 ·
Class A is for "commercial" EMI requirements
Class B is the "Consumer" EMI requirements

Personally, I wouldn't worry for a second. I run the same ballasts in my shop lights.

This is why it's considered a "Class A" non-cosumer device:

["RF lighting devices produce light by using RF energy to stimulate gases contained inside a lamp. In 1985, the Commission classified RF lighting devices as Part 18 Industrial, Scientific, and Medical (ISM) equipment and adopted rules to control the harmful interference to radio communications services from such devices.1 The current Part 18 rules for RF lighting devices specify AC power line-conducted emissions limits between 450 kHz and 30 MHz and radiated emissions limits between 30 MHz and 1 GHz. Part 18 specifies different emissions limits for consumer and non-consumer RF lighting equipment. Consumer ISM equipment is equipment that is used or intended to be used by the general public in a residential environment.2 Non-consumer ISM equipment is equipment that is used in commercial and industrial environments."]

Above from...
http://www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Engineeri...9/fcc99135.pdf
 
#4 ·
...RF lighting devices produce light by using RF energy to stimulate gases contained inside a lamp....
Basically, these new "electronic" ballasts are a transmitter of radio waves. They can and will cause radio interference in some receivers.

I'm not sure that the extra EMF lurking about is worth the energy savings of the electronic ballasts, however.
 
#5 · (Edited)
Haven't read any posts yet.

But to be honest, only diff is that it emits radio waves. That, and if your house ever burns down and is discovered that you had that installed, and it was an electrical short, or anything electrical what so ever that caused your house to catch on fire, even if it wasn't that ballast, your home owners wont cover any damages at all, because they'll have "No way of knowing" how mixing commercial and residential grade electrical fixtures may have impacted your homes electrical circuit(s).

As far as funciton, not much to worry about, as far as insurance goes, just don't have an electrical fire, ever. And you should be good. That, and don't have any fires in your kitchen, because if that ballast blows from the gases etc. that's HAZMAT, which could void your home owners insurance as well, because you put a commercial grade ballast in a residential environment.

Other than that, nothing to worry about TBH. (aside from whether or not it voids your home owners insurance having it connected)
 
#6 ·
...if your house ever burns down and is discovered that you had that installed, and it was an electrical short, or anything electrical what so ever that caused your house to catch on fire, even if it wasn't that ballast, your home owners wont cover any damages at all, because they'll have "No way of knowing" how mixing commercial and residential grade electrical fixtures may have impacted your homes electrical circuit(s). ...
While that statement may sound legitimate, in practice I have never heard of an instance where that was actually enforced.
 
#10 ·
I deal with lots of insurance companys ,especially on residential propertys for sale that are nailed by hack home inspectors that wouldnt know a plumbing or electrical code violation if you smacked them in the head with the book.
Most insurance inspectors ive seen walk through a property before theyll insure it will walk over to the front of service panel and want to know if its a 100a service,they dont even want to look inside of it.
Ive never seen one walk through a house and look at what kind of toilet or shower head you have,as long as the property meets local building codes theres not a whole lot they can legally say about the property being over built.
If I decide to run all the wiring in my house in threaded rigid conduit and run oversized #10 wire to every plug in my house with spec grade 20a plugs is my insurance company going to drop me? I doubt it very much :no::laughing:
 
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#12 ·
That, and if your house ever burns down and is discovered that you had that installed, and it was an electrical short, or anything electrical what so ever that caused your house to catch on fire, even if it wasn't that ballast, your home owners wont cover any damages at all, because they'll have "No way of knowing" how mixing commercial and residential grade electrical fixtures may have impacted your homes electrical circuit(s).
Total BS. The insurance company cannot disallow the claim unless they can prove that the device caused the fire. There are plenty of competent professionals that can testify that that device in and of itself would not cause a safety hazard. I agree that insurance companies look for an excuse to deny a claim, but they do have to prove their point, sometimes in a court of law.
 
#14 ·
Total BS. The insurance company cannot disallow the claim unless they can prove that the device caused the fire. There are plenty of competent professionals that can testify that that device in and of itself would not cause a safety hazard. I agree that insurance companies look for an excuse to deny a claim, but they do have to prove their point, sometimes in a court of law.
That wouldn't be hard, do you know why? They can claim the Commercial Grade Appliance/fixture overloaded your residential system, causing xxx to overload.

Weakest part of a chain is what breaks. If the strongest part was too strong, it'll be a weaker component that fails, not the stronger one.

NEC also bans the use of Commercial Use Only products for Residential use. Meaning unless your area says otherwise, it's against building code just to even have it. which an insurance company can absolutely claim was a factor in a fault.

Feel free to call up and ask your own home insurance company and ask them if they would cover damages if you had commercial use only products installed in your home.

That's the best way to prove my point.
 
#15 ·
Ive got a meeting with one sometime next week once I finish fixing the current bunch of handy/hackman repairs on a customers rental property theyre trying to insure,Ill make sure to point out the cast iron waste/vent stack and sq-d 100a QO panel I installed.
Same unit I install in commercial buildings :thumbsup:
Did you know that many cities and insurance companys consider rental properties to be commercial properties whether theyre a house or building?:whistling2:
 
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#16 ·
Ive got a meeting with one sometime next week once I finish fixing the current bunch of handy/hackman repairs on a customers rental property theyre trying to insure,Ill make sure to point out the cast iron waste/vent stack and sq-d 100a QO panel I installed.
Same unit I install in commercial buildings :thumbsup:
Did you know that many cities and insurance companys consider rental properties to be commercial properties whether theyre a house or building?:whistling2:
If in your area it's zoned as commercial, can't see anything wrong with that if it's coded as commercial vs residential. But the topic was more regarding appliances/fixtures that are of commercial grade. And Cast Iron Waste/vent stacks and QO panels meet residential code. They are allowed for Residential Use, they even in the UPC as being good to go for residential. It just means they have a bigger/stronger hole to dump unpressurized water into.

That's awesome none the less.
 
#17 ·
That wouldn't be hard, do you know why? They can claim the Commercial Grade Appliance/fixture overloaded your residential system, causing xxx to overload.
That would be very hard, because the insurance company must prove that the device caused the problem. What an uninformed insurance company could do, if they somehow discovered the commercial ballast, is they could cancel your policy because it doesn't comply with a clause in their policy. That is not likely because they do not want to loose a customer. What they could NOT do is deny the claim without proving that the device caused the fire.
 
#23 ·
Well, while I have done a large amount of residential electrical work in the last 50 years, I want to make it clear that I am NOT a licensed electrician. If I run into something that I don't know , I don't hesitate to call one. They are always worth the cost.

What I am is a retired Deputy Director of a large Public Safety agency. (Police, Fire, and EMS). If you want an in depth discussion of fire inspectors and insurance companies, I AM your guy.

I stand by my statements.

Fire away.
 
#45 ·
Because you have so much experiance hooking it up to those 240v gas water heaters! :brows::brows::sleep1::sleep1:
Around here we cant use it because of issues with chlorine,what say you oh great one of maintenance? :whistling2:
 
#110 ·
Dude, I don't know of ANY homes that have any higher than 30 amps..... That includes the $500,000 house my uncle bought years back....
So, where you live, for $500,000 you don't even get a stove to cook on?????:blink::rolleyes:
Ya know...because that would (or could) have a 50A breaker feeding it....and needless to say, that is more than 30A.

Must suck to sit in the living room floor in your $500,000 home and cook on a camp stove.
 
#111 ·
So, where you live, for $500,000 you don't even get a stove to cook on?????:blink::rolleyes:
Ya know...because that would (or could) have a 50A breaker feeding it....and needless to say, that is more than 30A.

Must suck to sit in the living room floor in your $500,000 home and cook on a camp stove.
50amps would be fore a 240 volt, his stove was 120... Only drew 15 amps... 50 amps would be insane... There is no way he'd be able to power that. Nothing he had in his house went above 30a.
 
#121 ·
It think it was gas. he had a gas water heater, too.

He also had gas heaters. (and propane heaters as auxilleries
OK, well...ummm...out in the REST of the world we have electric stoves available to us....and they DO draw (the INSANE amount of) 50 amps...and they draw it off of a 200 amp :eek: main service.....and yes it's 240 volts, needless to say.
 
#126 ·
Well in France we do also have 240 volt range or stove or hob ( whatever you call it ) that do draw 40 amp easy and also to really compound it we can reconferage it to triphase to run on 415 volts without issue.

Note it is normal to see alot of place which if it is on monophase supply useally limited to either 80 or 160 amp supply.

Merci,
Marc
 
#127 · (Edited)
Wha-wha-wha-what???????

How high would that be??
12'' from the ground. and then the bottom of a light switch box has to be no less than 43 1/2 inches from the ground.

EDIT

And anytime you run wiring through a stud, it cannot be within 1/3 of the outer edge of the stud, and cannot run a wire through a notch in a stud unless you put a 1/8'' thick metal plate on the stud to protect the wiring from any nails, screws, etc.
 
#132 · (Edited)
says who??

The nec?....i'll give ya one cheat on this one, the answer to this one is no....so who says?
ada...... On the job sites I've done work at, all the Electricians have always stated the bottom of the box cannot be any lower than 12'' from the ground, and light switches cannot be any lower than 43 1/2'' (bottom of the box) I was told by an Electrician Americans with Disabilities Act required it. Same with toilet seats from the rim of the toilet not being allowed to be any higher than 18'' from the ground. To raise it up you can use a raised toilet seat if its needed. etc.
 
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