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Old 12-17-2009, 04:39 PM   #16
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Finishing Basement and need a review of the plans


I see you come from the great state of Taxachusetts (LOL) so do I. It is a Building/Plumbing Code it is not in the NEC.

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Old 12-17-2009, 04:48 PM   #17
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Ah....funny it seems most people here want them seperate here so that you are not exhausting warm air while the light is on

Is this only if a window is not present ?

With the lack of humidty in our house we never use the fan in the winter
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Old 12-17-2009, 04:55 PM   #18
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Regardless if there is a window or not. The idea of the exhaust being on a light is so that steam is exhausted to the outside when taking a shower (mold and mildew). The second reason to exhaust the odor. Like I said it is not in the NEC but is in the Building/Plumbing Code.
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Old 12-17-2009, 04:56 PM   #19
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Finishing Basement and need a review of the plans


if you can - i would arrange your bathroom like this. it affords a little more privacy to the toilet (albeit not a lot) and opens up the room a little more. i'm guessing the box on the side is a cabinet? or is that a chase for plumbing?
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Old 12-17-2009, 04:59 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HIVOLT View Post
You can change out the single outlet with a duplex it would be the easiest.
Yeah, probably a lot easier

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Originally Posted by cellophane View Post
if you can - i would arrange your bathroom like this. it affords a little more privacy to the toilet (albeit not a lot) and opens up the room a little more. i'm guessing the box on the side is a cabinet? or is that a chase for plumbing?
The toilet is already existing (yes...just a toilet sitting in a completely open basement) and the other drains are already roughed in so unfortunately I'm trying to fit in with what's existing (Re: Trying to figure out layout in roughed in basement bathroom). Either a 48" shower on that side without the wall there or a 60" tub off that wall with the supplies within it. Haven't decided and not to concerned with it....I doubt I will get to the plumbing anytime soon but I'd like to do the electrical all at once if possible.


I'm going to redo the plans with suggestions made in this thread and then repost it in a hour or two.

Last edited by vseven; 12-17-2009 at 05:06 PM.
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Old 12-17-2009, 07:31 PM   #21
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Finishing Basement and need a review of the plans


Here are the plans revised. I removed the entire circuit from the utility room and marked the single to duplex outlet change on the water heater outlet. I will power the light for the utility room and the light/fan for the bathroom from the circuit doing the north side of the common area. To compensate I moved some outlets in the north side of the common area to the circuit on the south side as it had plenty of head room. So this "common" area is divided in half pretty evenly and still under 10 outlets per circuit (The lights in the entire common area are already on a separate circuit). I put the bathroom GFCI on it's own circuit and put in the missing smoke detectors with notes on how they should be run.

Any more comments?
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Old 12-17-2009, 07:58 PM   #22
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Dedicated 20a circuit to the bathroom CAN feed the outlet & everything in the bathroom
The lights are not REQUIRED to be GFCI protected unless over the tub OR required by MFG
But there isn't any electric code that prohibits having the lights GFCI protected or on the same circuit
That said I always have lights on a different circuit

I haven't found anyone that verifies that the light & fan MUST turn on at the same time
A window OR Fan are required

Bedrooms do require an egress to the outside, not to another part of the house
This can be a window (min size required) or a door
This is so a firefighter in full gear can get IN & rescue people
Usually if you have closets it will be viewed as a bedroom
BUT, if no egress then it is not a legal bedroom
Any room can still have closets.....

Are you running phone, cable & network?
Speakers.....surround sound ?

Bedrooms & most other areas need AFCI breakers under NEC 2008



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Old 12-17-2009, 08:14 PM   #23
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I assume the HW heater & furnace are already in place ?
What a waste of space....mine are closer to one wall
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Old 12-17-2009, 08:54 PM   #24
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Thanks for the examples. From them, technically, I need AFCI's on the two common area circuits too. North will have a entertainment center (yes I will run surround sound but didn't mark it...I've done this upstairs already so I didn't bother marking it up) and south will have a tradmill and possibly some arcade games. Kinda worried about the AFCI nuisance tripping from what I read about them online but guess I don't have a choice.

House is 10 years old so yes the HW and furnace are in place like the issue I have with the already roughed in bathroom. I agree it's a waste of space but I'm working with it the best I can.

So the "bedroom" can't be considered a bedroom but can be a "office" or really nice storage room or whatever. That's fine, this will probably be the last house I buy and if I sell I just have to mark it as a office. Or I can make it into a workshop. No biggie.

Yes to tv/cable, probably phone (getting real used to the cordless with one base station and you just have phones with chargers everywhere. That plus internet phone and I haven't used a regular phone jack in years). No to network (N-band works real well). I may run a phone and TV into the "office" just to be a little more through.

Yeah, I see no reason both the light and fan need to be on one switch...I rather have them separate like the others in the house if possible. As for putting the light/fan run off the outlet here is what I found: "210.11(C)(3), Exception: A single 20A, 120V branch circuit is permitted to supply all of the outlets (including outlets for lighting and equipment) in a single bathroom, as long as no single load fastened in place is rated more than 10A.". So from that I could do that or leave it like I have in the drawing.

Also do I need tamper resistant outlets (NEC 2008 406.11?)? I'm hoping not....20A TR's are kinda hard to find (and expensive).

Last edited by vseven; 12-17-2009 at 09:18 PM.
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Old 12-17-2009, 09:22 PM   #25
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Yes under NEC 2008 TR outlets are required
You only need them rated at 15a as long as they are a duplex
15a outlets are rated as 20a pass thru
I did use some true 20a outlets in my house w/T slot
But since the TR code went thru I'm using 15a's
The 20a ones are now $6+ each

Many treadmills need almost an entire 20a dedicated circuit

Office can have a futon/couch that fold out
Growing up my younger sisters bedroom was a walk-in closet without any windows
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Old 12-17-2009, 09:57 PM   #26
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Perfect....I like the Leviton Decora series (very square) and the 20A TR's in white are $8.50 at the cheapest online and $12 - $14 locally. 15A TR's are $20 for a 10 pack at HD....huge difference.

Treadmill is working off a extension cord to a existing outlet in the basement (that will be removed...I don't know how it passed inspection...it's run 70' off the garage circuit using a standard outlet mounted at 4' off the floor), the only thing that will most likely be on that circuit is the treadmill and possibly some arcade games and I don't see them being on at the same time. My workout equipment will be in that corner of the room...the outlets will barely be accessible but I'm putting them in just in case I do get inspected.
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Old 12-18-2009, 11:37 AM   #27
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Finishing Basement and need a review of the plans


Question....Under 2008 the lights in the common areas would need to be on a AFCI. In the north half (4 lights) they are on a existing circuit #19 which won't be modified so I can leave that alone. In the south half I was going to add switches to the existing curciut 19 so I didn't have pull chains for those two. Since I'm making a change would I then need to use a AFCI on that circuit or would this still be considered "existing"?
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Old 12-18-2009, 11:39 AM   #28
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I'd say 50-50 what an Inspector might require
If it is changing from unfinished to a finished area then I would say good idea to upgrade it
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Old 12-18-2009, 11:53 AM   #29
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So I can just pull that breaker out for 19 and replace it with a AFCI and be ok on that circuit then use AFCI's for the rest of the areas other then the bathroom? Or even better I could just move this existing 19 over to a new AFCI circuit and then use the old circuit 19 for the bathroom right?


Also if it's all the same I rather put the bathroom lights fed through the GFCI in there per the exception to 210.11(C)(3). I will have a hall light on a different circuit right outside the door and it will be less things on that "north" common area circuit.

Last edited by vseven; 12-18-2009 at 12:04 PM.
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Old 12-18-2009, 12:11 PM   #30
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I recently "condensed" & eliminated a lighting circuit that only had 400w on it
Same reason - I wanted it AFCI protected, so moved it to that breaker
My breakers are rated for 2 wires under the screw
Lights in bathrooom do not need to be AFCI, they can be GFCI protected

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