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Old 05-20-2010, 12:07 PM   #1
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Failed inspection


I bought a 1910 home. The electric service was installed in 2004. The box had to be relocated due to water. I pulled a permit and had a handy man move the box to the basement. Today my inspection did not go well. the inspector was lets just say ...seemed like he hates his job.

The electrical box has parallel ground. I guess thats a no no. We used 4 wire run from the meter to the box and was told by the inspector no bare copper ground is needed. No big deal I can remove in 5 min.

1) Said I needed to bond the waterlines. I guess this means move the bare copper wire to the cast iron drain.

2) He said all the feeds in the box are not tight enough (but he failed to pull any of the leads out by hand) Said I needed compound on all the leads. Ok will do.

3) Open KO's have no idea what this is.

4) Said I needed smoke detectors ( can I just use the battery kind?)

5) Said my knob and tube wiring is all exposed (non of it is in use so what does that matter?

6) 3 wire receptical on ungrounded circut (he would not tell me more than that) we have only one oulet hooked up and its new and grounded so ????

7) less than 2 recepticals per room.

8) receptical located in floor (its not hooked up)

9) Need gfi receptacle above kitchen counter Thats weird I don't have a kitchen counter or a sink yet.

10) Need GFI in all bathrooms

11) Basement GFI required

It's a 1910 home. I just want the electric on so we can work. Why would I have to add more oulets to get service turned on? We had only one circut hooked up for the inspection. No knob n tube hooked up or anything. Then he estimated it would cost me about 2k to fix these issue by a licensed contractor. I just don't have 2k. Any advice?

Any kind of grandfather clause? It's a 1910 home. Wayne county Indiana.

Thank you

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Old 05-20-2010, 12:21 PM   #2
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Failed inspection


Sounds like the handy man didn't know what he was doing

1 Water lines bonded, not the sewer/drain line
Where the water line enters the house grounded to the panel

2 Tighten them, Is each neutral under one screw ?
Two grounds are allowed by some Mfg under one screw - if same gauge
Is this Alum wire ?

3. KO = knock outs - not allowed to be left open

4. Possibly you may need hard wired, ask the Inspector

5 If its exposed & not in use it should be removed

6 3 wire receptacle not allowed on 2 wire ungrounded circuit

7 If the house was rewired you need to meet new codes that dictate how far apart between outlets

8 If its not hooked up it should be removed & a blank cover plate installed

9 Kitchen requires (2) GFCI protected circuits

10 Yup, GFCI required in bathrooms

11 Yup, GFCI required

What work was the permit for ?
What work has been done & by who ?
Who disconnected the K&T
You may have bought a house that had the electric updated without a permit/inspection
You are now left holding the bag to fix it

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Old 05-20-2010, 12:42 PM   #3
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Failed inspection


If you just need temp power to run tools while you work, then have a temp service spot be installed. The only thing the box would connect to is a ground and a bunch of outlets for you to run extension cords to. Then you can redo the electric correctly and have it reinspected.

It sounds like you have a final inspection done before your electric was finalized!
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Old 05-20-2010, 02:27 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuba_Dave View Post
3. KO = knock outs - not allowed to be left open
How do you plug these holes?
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Old 05-20-2010, 02:34 PM   #5
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How do you plug these holes?
They make little metal disks that hammer in and are held in place by friction clips. They are cheap - buy a dozen in several sizes.
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Old 05-20-2010, 02:42 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justlosther View Post
I bought a 1910 home. The electric service was installed in 2004.Was it installed to code in 2004? Sounds like it might not have been. The box had to be relocated due to water. I pulled a permit and had a handy man move the box to the basement. Today my inspection did not go well. the inspector was lets just say ...seemed like he hates his job.

He doesn't hate his job. He did it. It's too bad that you have to do more work to pass inspection, but you do and that's that.

The electrical box has parallel ground. I guess thats a no no. We used 4 wire run from the meter to the box and was told by the inspector no bare copper ground is needed. No big deal I can remove in 5 min.

1) Said I needed to bond the waterlines. I guess this means move the bare copper wire to the cast iron drain.

2) He said all the feeds in the box are not tight enough (but he failed to pull any of the leads out by hand) Said I needed compound on all the leads. Ok will do.

3) Open KO's have no idea what this is.

4) Said I needed smoke detectors ( can I just use the battery kind?)
Depends on your location - 'round where I live they HAVE to be hardwired.

5) Said my knob and tube wiring is all exposed (non of it is in use so what does that matter?
Are you sure none of it is in use? If not cut that stuff out and take it to the scrap yard.

6) 3 wire receptical on ungrounded circut (he would not tell me more than that) we have only one oulet hooked up and its new and grounded so ????
It can't be grounded if it's on an ungrounded circuit.


7) less than 2 recepticals per room.
You'll be glad you do this one.

8) receptical located in floor (its not hooked up)
Abandoned recs should be removed and covered with a blank.

9) Need gfi receptacle above kitchen counter Thats weird I don't have a kitchen counter or a sink yet.

10) Need GFI in all bathrooms

11) Basement GFI required

It's a 1910 home. I just want the electric on so we can work. Why would I have to add more oulets to get service turned on? We had only one circut hooked up for the inspection. No knob n tube hooked up or anything. Then he estimated it would cost me about 2k to fix these issue by a licensed contractor. I just don't have 2k. Any advice?

Any kind of grandfather clause? It's a 1910 home. Wayne county Indiana.
This is a question for your inspector. He is NOT the enemy he's there to help you.

Thank you
Good luck, these are all things you can do and (if your jurisdiction allows) do right and get permits.
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Old 05-20-2010, 03:00 PM   #7
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To echo what others have said, it sounds like you have an essentially gutted house, yes? You will not be able to pass a final inspection until the house is wired to code, which will require the right number of outlets in each room, bathroom & kitchen circuits, basement GFCI, laundry area circuit, etc.

You will need to talk to your inspector and power company to see what they will allow for a temporary power connection. This is generally just a small breaker panel feeding nothing but a few GFCI receptacles to plug tools and work lights into.
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Old 05-20-2010, 05:29 PM   #8
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here we can set the main panel with one or two hot recept that are fault protected right at the panel and get a permit for construction use. if you havent burnt bridges with him he will most likely have info in that area to assist. he can be your friend or not but you need to show some respect there
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Old 05-20-2010, 05:33 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xxPaulCPxx View Post
If you just need temp power to run tools while you work, then have a temp service spot be installed. The only thing the box would connect to is a ground and a bunch of outlets for you to run extension cords to. Then you can redo the electric correctly and have it reinspected.

It sounds like you have a final inspection done before your electric was finalized!
I just wanted the power turned on. They said they had to inspect it before the would turn it on. the house was empty for about a year.
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Old 05-20-2010, 05:52 PM   #10
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If they redid the electric in 2004 to replace the knob & tube then at that time the electric would need to meet current code
Your grandfather clause went out the window with the rewire

If they did not bring it up to current code then you are now left holding the bag

So.....Doesn't matter who did not install it correctly:
1) Bond the panel to the waterline where it enters the house...#6 required ?
I used #4
Since your handyman moved the box you are responsible for this

2) What compound ? Are these alum wires ?
What is loose ? Hot wires under the breaker screws, neutrals, grounds?
Where the wires enter the panel ?
Since your handyman moved the box you are responsible for this

3) Plug the KO's w/approved plugs - easy fix
Since your handyman moved the box you are responsible for this

4) Hardwired smokes now required
Usually 25% improvement in house triggers the hardwired requirement
Smokes are required no matter what
Ask your Inspector if battery powered only are OK

5) If you are 100% SURE its not in use then cut it out

6) GFCI outlet can be on a 2 wire circuit, downstream outlet must be marked No Ground Present
OR you can re-install a 2 prong outlet until its upgraded

7) If the house was rewired in 2004 then again current code needed to be met

8) Disconnect it & install a cover plate

9-11 GFCI's needed....again rewire was required to meet current code
Under NEC 2008 AFCI's are needed in a lot of areas

Most areas can refuse to turn the power on if they consider the installation unsafe
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Old 05-20-2010, 06:01 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tpolk View Post
here we can set the main panel with one or two hot recept that are fault protected right at the panel and get a permit for construction use. if you havent burnt bridges with him he will most likely have info in that area to assist. he can be your friend or not but you need to show some respect there

I wasn't rude at . he just didn't have much to say. The house is not gutted at all. Its nice. All I had was the main panel hooked up with one outlet and one light on a pull chain. None of the other wiring was hooked up anywhere. He started walking the house. It passed in 2004 there is a note on the meter box of this fact. I had to pay $50 for the rewire permit and $25 for the inspection. Now they have sent me an email telling me this:

"Mr. XXXX as I promised I have sent you a list of licensed contractors. "You may NOT pull a permit for a full rewire." The city of Richmond requires you must use one of the contractors from this list to rewire your home."

May you have a blessed day.
Cheryl L. xxxxxxx
Administrative Assistant
Metropolitan Development


And of course it is another 150 dollars for this permit. Why do I get the feeling I am going to find out that this list of electricians is going to come at a premium price

I own this home and I can not pull a permit? I looked into the law and this is what it says "Code requires that persons preforming electrical work in other than owner-occupied single family dwelling, be licensed as an electrical contractor."
I own this property. So I guess I am completly screwed because I don't have the money to pay an electrician. I am on unemployment from a closed Ford plant.

I asked about a temp service the permit for that is 50 dollars and you have to buy the meter pole and a licensed contractor must pull this permit as well. $75 dollar additional charge from the electric company too.

I just never expected this. I knew the knob and tube stuff would have to go. I knew the box would have to be moved. I just never thought they would make me rewire my whole house. If I knew all the wiring would have be new then I would have bought a new house ! (poor attempt at humor)



I am dead in the water now. I don't mind doing more work to correct these issues before they turn on the service but they won't even let me pull a permit now. I can't work on my own freakin home!

Last edited by justlosther; 05-20-2010 at 06:07 PM.
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Old 05-20-2010, 06:59 PM   #12
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there's wayyyy to many holes in this story.
The inspector doesn't inspect your whole house on a service change. He inspects the work that the permit was pulled for. If the 2004 job passed code then you should be fine. Everything that they've told you to do you should do anyways as it's just a better job at the end but why would they do a walkthrough of the whole house unless the whole house is being done. I'd take a second look at the paperwork as i think there's a misunderstanding somewhere.
I'm wondering why you aren't allowed to take out the permit....that's technically illegal for them to do that UNLESS they figured out that you didn't do your own work the first time around. You may pull the permit...but YOU have to do the work...not your handyman. It's a rule that was put in place to keep honest sparkies going and handymen that "think" they know electrical(definately not all handymen but some) from messing things up such as your house.
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Old 05-20-2010, 07:05 PM   #13
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Is this not an owner-occupied single family dwelling? If it is the exception cited should apply to you.

What state are you in?

Last edited by brric; 05-20-2010 at 07:10 PM.
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Old 05-20-2010, 07:11 PM   #14
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Yeah....something is wrong here
Get the info from the Building Dept on the 2004 installation & inspection

AH...you pulled the permit & a handy man did the work; you are pretty much screwed
Due to the issues with the install of the new panel they now consider that you are not competent to do the work
Around here they can do the same thing
You pull a permit, they Inspect - if there is too much wrong or it shows a lack of knowledge of proper procedure then you are forced to hire an electrician to correct the mistakes

Was the power off in this house for a while ? Ah empty for a year
Foreclosed property...or ?
Talk to them & see if there is any middle ground

Any pics of the current panel ?
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Old 05-20-2010, 07:12 PM   #15
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Owner-Occupied

He owns it, but he doesn't live in it.

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