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Old 07-13-2012, 11:33 PM   #16
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I replaced a pull-out range fuse block the other day while the stove had a phase-to-ground short in it, and I thought that was exciting enough. (shot sparks from the fuse box and stovetop, tripped the main) The possibility of plugging a range in with a phase-to-phase fault is exactly why I always turn off the breaker or pull the fuse block before plugging in anything over 20A/120V. A 50A range receptacle is not really intended as a disconnecting means.

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Old 07-14-2012, 05:14 AM   #17
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A 50A range receptacle is not really intended as a disconnecting means.
422.33 Disconnection of Cord-and-Plug-Connected Appliances.

(B) Connection at the Rear Base of a Range. For cord-and-plug-connected household ranges, an attachment plug and receptacle connection at the rear base of a range, if it is accessible from the front by removal of a drawer, shall be considered as meeting the intent of 422.33(A)



The NEC feels quite the opposite regarding your opinion.
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Old 07-14-2012, 07:23 AM   #18
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The NEC feels quite the opposite regarding your opinion.
Did the NEC foresee what happened to the OP or does this literally apply only to disconnection and not to connection?
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Old 07-14-2012, 08:14 AM   #19
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Did the NEC foresee what happened to the OP or does this literally apply only to disconnection and not to connection?
we have no idea what actually happened with the OP...
or why it happened.
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Old 07-14-2012, 08:17 AM   #20
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we have no idea what actually happened with the OP...
or why it happened.
Exactly, he could have installed the cord incorrectly... Who knows...
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Old 07-14-2012, 08:37 AM   #21
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The cord and plug disconnect is intended for servicing the appliance. Whoever services the appliance needs to be able to disconnect power to the appliance. That disco, also needs to be within sight to maintain power isn't turned on unexpectedly.

You should always turn off the circuit at the breaker before plugging the appliance back in.
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Old 07-14-2012, 09:40 AM   #22
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The cord and plug disconnect is intended for servicing the appliance. Whoever services the appliance needs to be able to disconnect power to the appliance. That disco, also needs to be within sight to maintain power isn't turned on unexpectedly.

You should always turn off the circuit at the breaker before plugging the appliance back in.
At least the first time anyway. Just to check for faults.
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Old 07-14-2012, 09:59 AM   #23
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Yeah, I could have phrased that a little more precisely. The range receptacle is definitely a disconnecting means by any definition, but not the sort that you'd want to plug in under load, or if you were not absolutely certain there was no fault in whatever you were plugging in.

It still would be interesting to know why the range was unplugged to begin with, whether it was a new appliance, or unplugged for troubleshooting, or whatever.
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Old 07-14-2012, 10:41 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by McSteve View Post
I replaced a pull-out range fuse block the other day while the stove had a phase-to-ground short in it, and I thought that was exciting enough. (shot sparks from the fuse box and stovetop, tripped the main) The possibility of plugging a range in with a phase-to-phase fault is exactly why I always turn off the breaker or pull the fuse block before plugging in anything over 20A/120V. A 50A range receptacle is not really intended as a disconnecting means.

That's a good idea but it still is a light show when you turn the breaker back on after you plug the range in, since the fault is hidden. I suppose along with turning off the breaker it would be prudent to inspect the range terminal block to make sure no obvious miswires or faults are easily seen.

I'm curious what the fault was inside the stove ... btw I'm glad your still with us ....
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Old 07-15-2012, 08:00 PM   #25
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First, thanks to everyone for the responses. All of this information is exactly what I was looking for, even if much of it is admittedly over my head.

Now to answer at least a few of the questions raised:

I installed the plug myself on a new never used appliance. And pretty much immediately after the "incident" had my work checked by a professional friend of mine. I had the stove wired correctly. My pride if not my nerves was comforted by this revelation.

I did not, and do not yet, have access to the breaker. So I'm not sure what it is running on, nor was i able to disconnect the power. I will not attempt anything of this nature without so in the future, believe you me.

Thanks.
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Old 07-15-2012, 10:57 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by squarenuts View Post
First, thanks to everyone for the responses. All of this information is exactly what I was looking for, even if much of it is admittedly over my head.

Now to answer at least a few of the questions raised:

I installed the plug myself on a new never used appliance. And pretty much immediately after the "incident" had my work checked by a professional friend of mine. I had the stove wired correctly. My pride if not my nerves was comforted by this revelation.

I did not, and do not yet, have access to the breaker. So I'm not sure what it is running on, nor was i able to disconnect the power. I will not attempt anything of this nature without so in the future, believe you me.

Thanks.
how do you not have access to your breaker?

i live in an apartment that seems like it was built in 1930 and they still had the sense to put the panel in the kitchen . Edison may have installed it personally. I'm starting to think there's more to this story.
such as why install a plug on a new appliance
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Last edited by andrew79; 07-15-2012 at 11:00 PM.
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Old 07-16-2012, 01:21 AM   #27
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I know, I know. I was doing this in an apartment that is one of 5 built into what was once a single family dwelling. The only breaker was in another apartment with nobody home.

Apparently 220 appliances often don't come with cords anymore because there are so many types of receptacles.
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Old 07-16-2012, 01:31 AM   #28
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Where I'm from, the installers usually install the cord, or at the minimum, supply the cord. You always have to check the neutral/ground bond when the cord is delivered with the cord installed.
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Old 07-16-2012, 01:49 AM   #29
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Sounds like a dead short in the stove. The circuit was almost certainly on a 50A breaker, but the instantaneous fault current is MUCH higher - probably on the order of 1000A for about 1/5 second until the breaker trips. Temperature? Somewhere around 10,000-30,000 Fahrenheit is typical for most atmospheric arcs. The temperature of the plasma is less important than the radiant heat from it, which is what does the damage. It's pretty unlikely that there was any danger of really serious injury from this kind of incident though. The available fault current is just not high enough to cause an arc flash like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6Im7...1&feature=plcp
(Note: the incident in this video is reported to have been fatal for one of the workers.)
When you look it up - and you should - the temperature of the leading edge of the "Arc Blast" is reliably measured [incredibly] as being in far excess of the temperature of the sun, and even greater than the laser-blast of a regular Hydrogen bomb detonation.
It is sad to see this video...
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Old 07-16-2012, 01:56 AM   #30
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I replaced a pull-out range fuse block the other day while the stove had a phase-to-ground short in it, and I thought that was exciting enough. (shot sparks from the fuse box and stovetop, tripped the main) The possibility of plugging a range in with a phase-to-phase fault is exactly why I always turn off the breaker or pull the fuse block before plugging in anything over 20A/120V. A 50A range receptacle is not really intended as a disconnecting means.
I don't want to sound pedantic... But, before connecting any load to an energized circuit - for safety - the OCPD ought to be off first, or at least, a phase to ground continuity check needs to be done on the proposed equipment/appliance about to be connected...or both. Be safe...

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