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Old 08-03-2013, 12:18 AM   #16
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Excessive Voltage


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Originally Posted by frenchelectrican View Post
What year this home was builted and was rewired sometime back or just oringail wiring in there?

Merci,
Marc
1940 with some new jack-leg remodeling done.

I did check the panel, Marc. No signs of burning.

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Old 08-03-2013, 12:26 AM   #17
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Excessive Voltage


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Originally Posted by sirsparksalot View Post
1940 with some new jack-leg remodeling done.

I did check the panel, Marc. No signs of burning.

Now you did upper the anite on this one .,,

I feel possiblty a very good place you will do find a bad connection is one of the ceiling luminaire as I know you mention kitchen light so that will be one of few place you will find it first.

Due it was common in old days the power source useally go to the lumiaire first then go to the receptales or some case luminaire to luminaire so it will be done in that fashion.

As far for Jack-leg rigged wiring just prepared for anything can goes.,

I Know you say checked the panel but did you see red wire going to one of the breakers yet ? Oui ou Non ?

Merci,
Marc
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Old 08-03-2013, 12:31 AM   #18
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Excessive Voltage


Oui on the Red Wire.

Red wire is feeding kitchen receptacle to which is plugged the refrigerator, and a range hood. I'm not recalling if the kitchen lights were on this leg.

Black wire feeds the bedroom and bathroom lights, and a couple receptacles.
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Old 08-03-2013, 12:39 AM   #19
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Excessive Voltage


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Originally Posted by sirsparksalot View Post
Oui on the Red Wire.

Red wire is feeding kitchen receptacle to which is plugged the refrigerator, and a range hood. I'm not recalling if the kitchen lights were on this leg.

Black wire feeds the bedroom and bathroom lights, and a couple receptacles.
Ahh Bon., I think we may find a mistery answer but I do think one of the two room which ever is closer to the panel that where you will have to start at first so I am not 100% suprised to see a red conductor do show up in bedroom or bathroom luminaire so if that the case then take a look at netural connection I am sure one of few spots you will find loose netural connection there.

But one good serious warning turn off BOTH Breakers before you start do anything with netural due on MWBC's once you lift ( loosen or remove ) the netural anything on either circuit can get damaged from unbalanced voltage. )

Before you drop the luminaires down make sure you make a note of connections what it was on there so that way when you put it back together it will be the same as before.

Bon Chance.

Merci,
Marc


NOTE: I think you should check on the common wall between the two rooms so anything on that wall will give you the answer.
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Last edited by frenchelectrican; 08-03-2013 at 12:40 AM. Reason: a aftermath note
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Old 08-03-2013, 08:42 AM   #20
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Excessive Voltage


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Yes.... Makes you think of a bad service neutral...... but I do not understand the lights/receptical going out....??????

The varience in voltages (due to a bad neutral) can be explained by varying loads (maybe you turned things on or off or refer went on or off) but I don't understand the lights going off (perhaps blowing out) but not turning off.
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Beats the hell out of me too. I guess a breaker should trip w/ excessive current if the voltage increased, given the same load resistance??


Sirsparky.... Actually, won't the current go down and be less??????

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Old 08-03-2013, 08:51 AM   #21
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Excessive Voltage


Quote:
Originally Posted by frenchelectrican View Post
Now you did upper the anite on this one .,,

I feel possiblty a very good place you will do find a bad connection is one of the ceiling luminaire as I know you mention kitchen light so that will be one of few place you will find it first.

Due it was common in old days the power source useally go to the lumiaire first then go to the receptales or some case luminaire to luminaire so it will be done in that fashion.

As far for Jack-leg rigged wiring just prepared for anything can goes.,

I Know you say checked the panel but did you see red wire going to one of the breakers yet ? Oui ou Non ?

Merci,
Marc

Marc..... Remembering I'm a GC not a E-pro, would a bad neutral on MWBC affect voltage at the main service.????

Sirsparky was reading 135V at service main.

If MWBC went in series, would not main be back in parellel if service neutral was good???? and would not we return to 120 legs at the main service?

Thanks for helping me think/understand this out.

Best

Peter
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Old 08-03-2013, 09:11 AM   #22
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Excessive Voltage


Open SERVICE neutral.


Open MWBC neutral.



A open/bad neutral conductor on a MWBC has no effect on the main service.
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Old 08-03-2013, 10:58 AM   #23
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Excessive Voltage


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Originally Posted by MTN REMODEL LLC



Sirsparky.... Actually, won't the current go down and be less??????

Best
I think with resistive loads (like a heating element) the current will go up as voltage goes up, and with some motors/compressors the current would be less as voltage goes up. I know the opposite is true when voltage goes down. I'm sure it would all depend on the circumstances Of the specific situation.
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Old 08-03-2013, 11:21 AM   #24
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Excessive Voltage


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Originally Posted by MTN REMODEL LLC View Post
Marc..... Remembering I'm a GC not a E-pro, would a bad neutral on MWBC affect voltage at the main service.????

Sirsparky was reading 135V at service main.

If MWBC went in series, would not main be back in parellel if service neutral was good???? and would not we return to 120 legs at the main service?

Thanks for helping me think/understand this out.




Best

Peter
Quote:
Originally Posted by stickboy1375 View Post
Open SERVICE neutral.


Open MWBC neutral.



A open/bad neutral conductor on a MWBC has no effect on the main service.

Thanks Stick...... Your confirmation on these things REALLY helps.... As a GC.... when I see something that does not make full sense to me... I get woried that I'm either wrong in my thinking or I'm missing something.

With the OP's main reading at 135V, I'm not sure why we are looking on a MWBC for a broken neutral.... seems we should be checking the service neutral first.

Line voltage would not normally vary way up to 135 would it (assuming good neutral)

EDIT... Stick.... any place I could copy a big picture of your reference above... it would be great for future reference Thanks again

Best

Peter
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Old 08-03-2013, 11:28 AM   #25
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Excessive Voltage


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[/B]

Sirsparky.... Actually, won't the current go down and be less??????

Best
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle_in_rure View Post
I think with resistive loads (like a heating element) the current will go up as voltage goes up, and with some motors/compressors the current would be less as voltage goes up. I know the opposite is true when voltage goes down. I'm sure it would all depend on the circumstances Of the specific situation.
Kyle.... Am I confused, (and ignoring/forgetting a motor (inductive?) load), does not:

I=V/R and does not current go down as voltage goes up???

EDIT: Strike that response, haven't had my coffee yet this morning.... gotta think some more, Sir sparky's comment started this and the situation was a breaker blowing from overcurrent when a MWBC lost a neutral and went in series.

Best

Peter
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Old 08-03-2013, 11:34 AM   #26
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Excessive Voltage


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Originally Posted by MTN REMODEL LLC

Kyle.... Am I confused, and forgetting a motor (inductive?) load, does not:

I=V/R and does not current go down as voltage goes up???

Best

Peter
All I know is heating elements will use less wattage at lower voltage. (Maybe current was the wrong word?). Which is why things like water Heaters that are rated 208/240 volts will be dually rated also for wattage, maybe 3350/4500 watts.

This is getting over my head
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Old 08-03-2013, 11:44 AM   #27
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No Kyle...... I'm just waking up.... probably me.... gotta go check the original issue......

(I forget whether we are talking series or parellel)


EDIT: Kyle.....Ihaven't had my coffee yet this morning.... gotta think some more,

Sir sparky's comment started this and the situation was a breaker blowing from overcurrent when a MWBC lost a neutral and went in series

Best

Peter
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Old 08-03-2013, 12:11 PM   #28
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Excessive Voltage


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No Kyle...... I'm just waking up.... probably me.... gotta go check the original issue......

(I forget whether we are talking series or parellel)


EDIT: Kyle.....Ihaven't had my coffee yet this morning.... gotta think some more,

Sir sparky's comment started this and the situation was a breaker blowing from overcurrent when a MWBC lost a neutral and went in series

Best

Peter
And this is why I am not an electrician....
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Old 08-03-2013, 12:30 PM   #29
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And this is why I am not an electrician....
Amazing you and I haven't electricuted ourselves yet..... however, we do know what we don't know.... and are willing to learn
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Old 08-03-2013, 12:47 PM   #30
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Excessive Voltage


I=E/R
I=120v/10Ω
I=12a

I=E/R
I=135v/10Ω
I=13.5a

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