Event Power Box - Electrical - DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum


Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-18-2013, 01:29 AM   #1
Newbie
 
REP4507's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 3
Rewards Points: 10
Question

Event Power Box


I need some help understanding how to design a three-phase power box.

The end result is 12 x 10A GPO's (3 quad 10A points), 4 x 15A GPO's (2 double 15A points) and a single 20A GPO. All switched.

I want the box to have a master kill switch from input that will lead into a master RCD.

Then each set of GPO's will have its own ganged breaker and then a MCB for each outlet itself, with an RCBO on the 20A because Im paranoid.

End result should look like the image provided (image is to scale).

This will be a wall board. The 20A will run a jumping castle the 10As are for miscellaneous items and the 15A will be for fridges and coffee grinder/machines.

I have a 415V 5 pin IP 67 ceeform for a power source.
Attached Thumbnails
Event Power Box-diagram-small.jpg  

Advertisement

REP4507 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2013, 06:52 AM   #2
Licensed Electrical Cont.
 
Speedy Petey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NY State
Posts: 6,905
Rewards Points: 2,162
Default

Event Power Box


My only advice to you is to have a professional build this for you. It's for a business so why cheap out and attempt to do it yourself?

Also, it would help if you put your location in the post or your profile. Most of us here are in the US or Canada, and it is obvious that you are not. You'll likely need someone familiar with your country to even get building advice.

Advertisement

__________________
Sometimes I feel like if I answer any more questions it is like someone trying to climb over a fence to jump off a bridge and me giving them a boost.
Answers based on the 2008 & 2011 NEC.
Speedy Petey is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Speedy Petey For This Useful Post:
gregzoll (11-18-2013), mpoulton (11-19-2013)
Old 11-18-2013, 05:52 PM   #3
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Cairns Australia
Posts: 2,723
Rewards Points: 2,406
Default

Event Power Box


Sounds like he's in Australia ?


As I am here in Australia I can help !

But I also know that the Australian authorities are SUPER strict with
electrical regulations in reguards to carnival type rides and stalls.
In fact they are given the highest level for safety requirements.

And are you sure you want a main RCD ?
all you need is one small leak,
and it will take out everything,
Not so smart if you are running lights as well.

Better to use individual rcd's on each outlet,
So you dont suddenly plunge everyone into darkness.

Messing with three phase at 415v is extremily dangerous
and Not recommendded for ametures.

But if you must we can help !
dmxtothemax is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to dmxtothemax For This Useful Post:
gregzoll (11-18-2013), mpoulton (11-19-2013), REP4507 (11-20-2013), Speedy Petey (11-18-2013)
Old 11-20-2013, 03:54 AM   #4
Newbie
 
REP4507's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 3
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Event Power Box


Quote:
Originally Posted by dmxtothemax View Post
Sounds like he's in Australia ?

As I am here in Australia I can help !
Yep Aussie.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmxtothemax View Post
But I also know that the Australian authorities are SUPER strict with
electrical regulations in reguards to carnival type rides and stalls.
In fact they are given the highest level for safety requirements.
This is for a not-for-profit organization and not for huge carnivals just tiny local fairs we host onsite for fundraising.

We have a contracted group of sparky's that charge for design time. That's about $45 per half hour. So if we provide them with a well worked out base idea and they OK it, we use another contracted wholesale dealer to purchase all the required components and parts needed. We cannot go outside of our contracts as there is more than one facility linked to them.

On one hand it pisses off the sparky's as it only allows them to charge labour, but on the other we save lots. For example, what was quoted as five sets of $4000-$5000 system additions or upgrades, have been reduced to $2500 each and we got a bulk discount on the labour from $98 per hour down to $77.

Every part in our facility is the same class/type, has been documented, checked and its warrantying noted in case it fails.

That being said I am/was a technical trade assistant before I took up my current post. It generally falls to me with these things as I have some idea how they work. However I have very little experience with three-phase power.

Quote:
Originally Posted by "dmxtothemax View Post
And are you sure you want a main RCD ?
all you need is one small leak,
and it will take out everything,
Not so smart if you are running lights as well.

Better to use individual rcd's on each outlet,
So you dont suddenly plunge everyone into darkness.


Regarding the RCD I suppose it would be possible to switch all the MCB's (main circuit [overload] breakers) with RCBO's ([residual + overload] breakers). However how will that work with the three-phase. Will it not need to enter and disperse after exiting from the main KILL breakers? Would it not still be best to go through a modulated three-phase RCD before the RCBO's?

Last edited by REP4507; 11-20-2013 at 04:24 AM.
REP4507 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2013, 05:32 PM   #5
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Cairns Australia
Posts: 2,723
Rewards Points: 2,406
Default

Event Power Box


If maximum safety is your main concern,
Then yes use a three phase RCD,
How ever I think the risk of plunging everyone into sudden darkness
is also just as dangerous.
Using individual rcd's is a better option
provided there are no three phase loads.

You should check with the Electrical Safety Office
with reguards to your classification
You could still be classified as carnival type rides
And there where changes recently
You can access them online, thru the dept of justice website.

I understand that you want to save money,
But the government is super strict now days with electrical safey
And all it takes is one problem where someone is hurt,
And it will cost you ten times what you could have saved.
The old excuss that we are just trying to raise money,
doesn't wash anymore in a court of law.

YOU MUST PROVIDE A SAFE ENVIROMENT.

Last edited by dmxtothemax; 11-20-2013 at 05:38 PM.
dmxtothemax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2013, 12:12 AM   #6
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Cairns Australia
Posts: 2,723
Rewards Points: 2,406
Default

Event Power Box


What is your next question ?

You dont need joined breakers if there single phase loads,
Again if one tripps all go out.
Since there are no three phase loads,
you dont need joined breakers.

Last edited by dmxtothemax; 11-21-2013 at 12:32 AM.
dmxtothemax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2013, 08:00 PM   #7
Newbie
 
REP4507's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 3
Rewards Points: 10
Exclamation

Event Power Box


Quote:
Originally Posted by dmxtothemax View Post
If maximum safety is your main concern,
Then yes use a three phase RCD,
How ever I think the risk of plunging everyone into sudden darkness
is also just as dangerous.
Using individual rcd's is a better option
provided there are no three phase loads.



No, I want to use a three-phase power source, convert to single phase and power the GPO's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmxtothemax View Post
You dont need joined breakers if there single phase loads,
Again if one tripps all go out.
Since there are no three phase loads,
you dont need joined breakers.
Regarding the original suggested design. They are not joined trip breakers I'm suggesting. But BREAKER's [Main Switch Cut] Breakers or simply Joined On/Off switches.

Bit if I am having individual RCBO's for each GPO then I will just use lockout keys instead.

I had wanted to just switch off and lock off a set of GPO's. Thus preventing anyone for firing up a line I don't want them to touch. Since the box would only be used in combinations of 15's only 10's + 20. etc.

See new designs below.
Attached Thumbnails
Event Power Box-diagram2-sm.jpg   Event Power Box-diagram3-sm.jpg  
REP4507 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2013, 11:10 PM   #8
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Cairns Australia
Posts: 2,723
Rewards Points: 2,406
Default

Event Power Box


Why is number 6, A 20A outlet, but a 32A breaker ?
Otherwise it looks ok so far !

Advertisement

dmxtothemax is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Power strip hack salex Electrical 3 01-31-2012 07:10 AM
Solar at the cottage? Tito1800 Home Theater 2 01-18-2012 03:30 PM
TV power bridge into existing outlet and protected by an external surge protector andytran73 Electrical 4 12-14-2011 09:00 AM
Dumb electrical question about potentially overloading a power socket zapp Electrical 2 02-18-2011 10:43 AM
Wring for Lincoln Power Mig Welder vstoyko Electrical 17 01-15-2009 07:15 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts