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Old 05-05-2013, 08:53 PM   #1
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European Chandelier Wiring Help


Hello,

We purchased a chandelier in Czech Republic 10 year ago and just now (trying) to install it!

Each "arm" going to the light has 2 wires. There are 12 "arms". The connection point to the ceiling has 4 wires. I assume one is ground. Why are there 3 others? How do you wire this?

They are nicely pig tailed out for simple screw down connection points, but things don't add up. The blue wire has 4 points of connection. Brown and black, only 3. There are 12 "arms". (this is starting to sound like a riddle)

I'm guessing the extra wire could be for seperating the "load" of 6 lamps on one "side" and 6 on the other, so not too many on 1 small wire. Other than that, I have no clue. Our home US home in South Carolina has only a 2 wire system - hot. No neutral/3-wire setup.

Any feedback/help is much appreciated! Thank you!!!

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Old 05-05-2013, 09:14 PM   #2
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European Chandelier Wiring Help


To correct you on your house wiring here in the U.S., you have a Hot leg, Neutral, and ground. Most older homes will not have a ground at lights and receptacle outlets, just a Hot & Neutral.

As for getting that fixture to work with your U.S. wiring, you will have to verify first if it can be rewired from the European wiring that it was wired for, to work with the U.S. wiring.

That means that the fixture you have, was wired to work on a 230vAC 50hz electrical system. Also the bulbs are different that are used in the European countries, not like here in the U.S., which are called Edison based bulbs, for use on lighting fixtures.

Your best bet is to find a local lamp shop in your area, that can rewire the fixture for you to use in your home.

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Old 05-05-2013, 09:25 PM   #3
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European Chandelier Wiring Help


gregzoll,

Thank you for your reply.

The sockets are for Edison based bulbs. Yes, I just 2 black wires. They are cloth / "knob and tube". No ground wire.

I still don't understand the additional wires in the main channel.
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Old 05-05-2013, 09:36 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elec1 View Post
gregzoll,

Thank you for your reply.

The sockets are for Edison based bulbs. Yes, I just 2 black wires. They are cloth / "knob and tube". No ground wire.

I still don't understand the additional wires in the main channel.
They are there, because of how the european wiring system is. Some systems are three phase, others are single phase, depending on the country. But at the age of the fixture, I would have to say that the wiring was designed most likely for three phase.

This should help, since it is almost the same pretty much as you are stating, but the post is from 2006. http://en.allexperts.com/q/Electrica...chandelier.htm

You can always ask ShumakerScott over at German House Rebuild and he could give you insight as to what wire colors are for what, since he is in Germany. One of our French sparkies may be along later tonight and can also give you insight as to what colors go where on the fixture, so that you can hook it up for a 120vAC 60hz system, that we have here in the U.S..
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Old 05-05-2013, 09:37 PM   #5
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European Chandelier Wiring Help


Green/yellow is ground. blue is grounded(neutral), brown and black are ungrounded(hot) I can only assume the fixture is set up for multiple switching
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Old 05-05-2013, 09:53 PM   #6
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European Chandelier Wiring Help


Techy,

Thanks. I wondered if half of the lamps were supposed to be on brown and half on black to divided load.... I assume that's what you mean by multiple switching. Not my intention for multiple switching so if that is the case, I could just wire those together.
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Old 05-05-2013, 10:03 PM   #7
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3 phase lamps, I don 't think so. Use a ohm meter to ID which wires go where.
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Old 05-05-2013, 10:04 PM   #8
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Unless this fixture is listed by a national recognized listing agency, it is not legal to install.
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Old 05-05-2013, 10:05 PM   #9
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rjniles, 3 phase lamps? The lamps only have 2 wires each. Lamps aren't polarity sensitive are they? Not sure how to use a meter to identify anything... not sure what to look for. Do share!

2 wires to each lamp, but 4 wires in the main conduit/channel - that's what baffles me.

Thanks.
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Old 05-05-2013, 10:07 PM   #10
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k_buz,

It is illegal (not up to county/city code, I presume?) to install a fixture in your own home that is not UL or otherwise listed?????????????? Where can I read more on this? Where is this documented??? I had no idea!
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Old 05-05-2013, 10:08 PM   #11
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European Chandelier Wiring Help


The lights may be in three banks (as opposed to 3 phase) so you could have multiple switches on the wall to turn on one or more banks to get different lighting levels.

Since there are 12 sockets, you have 12 socket shells and 12 bottom contacts to test using your multimeter set to the continuity (or ohms) function. For each central wire make a list of what is connected to it. You should find that all of the socket shells (neutral in the U.S.) are connected to one of the central wires. Different bottom contacts should each be connected to each of the other central wires.

For example if two sockets (bottom contacts) are connected to one wire, three to the second wire, and seven bottom contacts to the third wire (all socket shells are connected to the fourth wire) then you can switch on groups and combinations of 2, 3, 5, 7, 9. 10, and all bulbs using three switches. (The 7 bank together with the 2 bank give 9 bulbs on.)

You might find irregularities such as some socket shells and some bottom contacts connected to the same wire. While the fixture will still work this way, it is safer to have all the socket shells connected to the same wire used as the neutral. Or maybe one socket shell is not connected to anything which means there is an obvious defect you need to fix.

A reminder: When testing continuity or resistance, power must be turned off and also at least one of the wires or terminals you are touching the meter probes to must be disconnected from everything else besides the item being tested.
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Old 05-05-2013, 10:10 PM   #12
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Quote:
90.7 Examination of Equipment for Safety. For specific
items of equipment and materials referred to in this Code,
examinations for safety made under standard conditions
provide a basis for approval where the record is made generally
available through promulgation by organizations
properly equipped and qualified for experimental testing,
inspections of the run of goods at factories, and servicevalue
determination through field inspections. This avoids
the necessity for repetition of examinations by different
examiners, frequently with inadequate facilities for such
work, and the confusion that would result from conflicting
reports on the suitability of devices and materials examined
for a given purpose.
It is the intent of this Code that factory-installed internal
wiring or the construction of equipment need not be
inspected at the time of installation of the equipment, except
to detect alterations or damage, if the equipment has
been listed by a qualified electrical testing laboratory that is
recognized as having the facilities described in the preceding
paragraph and that requires suitability for installation in
accordance with this Code.
.......
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Old 05-05-2013, 10:23 PM   #13
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European Chandelier Wiring Help


k_buz: thanks for sharing the code.... I can't understand why it would be illegal for me to install something not listed otherwise. I'll contact my city code adminstration office tomorrow to learn more. Regardless, I don't really give a crap if legal or not. No offense.

Others on multiple switching: So this may have been the manufacture's design - to allow multiple switches to control groups of lights. That seems apparent in the wiring, but I don't think it is traditional in a chandelier, nor how I'd like to use it.

I think I'll just combine all the wires for one side together and the other side and wire to my 2 wires, regardless of the channel wires available. I do welcome feedback if I'm grossly mistaken.

Thanks again.
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Old 05-05-2013, 10:27 PM   #14
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European Chandelier Wiring Help


Being that the fixture is made for use in another country, it has been designed/engineered with different set of standards in mind than what is acceptable in the US. Whether or not you care or not is of no matter to me, I will sleep well at night.

I hope you can too knowing you have an electrical fixture that you do not know how to wire and have gotten advice on how to wire said fixture by a bunch of people on an internet forum.
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Old 05-05-2013, 10:29 PM   #15
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Techally wise K_buzz is correct that luminarie you have there is not listed to use in USA side.

I know they are rated to run on 240 volts single phase and the European bulbs are a hair smaller than standard Americian Edison base bulbs so you may run into that issue.

Now with that part out of the way now the key issue you may ran into is the ampacity rating of that conductor which I did see and look like 1.0mm2 and IMO it may not be ok in USA side at all.

The common colour format which we used over here in majorty of the European side.,

Bleu - Netural ( white for NA side )
Brown - Line ( black for NA side )
Black - Line ( of course it is allready switched back to line it used to be neutral before in old format ) so it will be again on line side.
Green with yellow strip that is earth aka ground

That lumiaire is set up for two light level so you can switch first X numbers of bulb and second switch kick on the rest.

Again all the parts you have are metric basied so you may have some issue finding correct parts to fit in your junction box.

IMO the best answer is rewire the luimiare to use the North Americian conductors and it will be much safer this way.

Merci,
Marc

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