Enhancing Existing Wiring To Detached Garage - Electrical - Page 2 - DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum


Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-03-2008, 04:28 PM   #16
liscenced electrician
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Oregon coast
Posts: 997
Rewards Points: 514
Default

Enhancing existing wiring to detached garage


what do you mean. I know you know what it says, since youve been refferencing it, but....

225.39 says all disconnects for feeders must be 60A.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris75 View Post
Section 225.39 (D)

In other words, you can easily run #12 feeder to the garage, but your disconnect would have to be rated at 60 amps.
So youd be saying to run a number 12 for a feeder. And use a 60 amp breaker to disconnect that feeder.

Advertisement

jimmy21 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2008, 04:54 PM   #17
Electrician
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Connecticut, Litchfield
Posts: 2,015
Rewards Points: 1,000
Default

Enhancing existing wiring to detached garage


Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy21 View Post
what do you mean. I know you know what it says, since youve been refferencing it, but....

225.39 says all disconnects for feeders must be 60A.



So youd be saying to run a number 12 for a feeder. And use a 60 amp breaker to disconnect that feeder.

The disconnect is at the detached structure. So in a nutshell, I can easily run a 12-3 feeder out of the house panel with 20a OCP, when I get to the detached structure, I install a MIN. 60amp disconnect ( weather it be a main breaker panel or some other Suitable for Service Equipment disconnect) and be on my marry way.


Hope this helps!
chris75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2008, 05:55 PM   #18
liscenced electrician
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Oregon coast
Posts: 997
Rewards Points: 514
Default

Enhancing existing wiring to detached garage


if you did that you feeder wouldn't have a 60 amp disconnect. It would have a 60 amp disconnect downstream from it. You are misinterpreting the code. Flat out. Its saying the 60 amp disconnect must disconnect the feeder. The way your reading it makes no sense at all. Why would the NEC care what size breaker you have downstream of what its talking about protecting?

You can do what you saying legally, if its attached garage, where 225.39 would have nothing to do with it. And further more if its not getting inspected, who gives a crap as long as its safe
jimmy21 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2008, 05:57 PM   #19
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 3
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Enhancing existing wiring to detached garage


That's great that this thread inspired a spirited discussion, but I think from the fourth post and beyond it was way above my head and far more information that I was seeking.

Remember I closed my OP with this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by justinperkins View Post
It's an old house and I'm trying to make do with what I have for the time being until we have enough money to have the house rewired and a new panel installed.
Basically I was trying to determine if my existing circuit is maxed out or if it is OK to add the additional fluorescents I am referring to. Also, in the case that it is maxed out, can I simply add a subpanel in the garage, add two breakers and then feed my fluorescents from one breaker and the outlets from another.

wrt to adding a ground spike at the shop, I would love to do that since it would give my shop grounded outlets (remember my house is not grounded).

btw, nothing is getting inspected, I just want it safe.
justinperkins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2008, 06:21 PM   #20
Licensed Pro
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: SC
Posts: 1,545
Rewards Points: 1,000
Default

Enhancing existing wiring to detached garage


Quote:
wrt to adding a ground spike at the shop, I would love to do that since it would give my shop grounded outlets (remember my house is not grounded).
Having a ground rod has nothing to do with having grounded outlets. The ground of the receptacles are connected to the panel ground (main or sub) which are ultimately bonded to the neutral (at the main service). A ground rod provides protection from lightning and high voltage. It does not provide short circuit protection.
__________________
"Life is hard. Life is harder when you're stupid." John Wayne
HouseHelper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2008, 06:29 PM   #21
General Contractor
 
MacRoadie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 76
Rewards Points: 75
Default

Enhancing existing wiring to detached garage


Quote:
Originally Posted by chris75 View Post
The disconnect is at the detached structure. So in a nutshell, I can easily run a 12-3 feeder out of the house panel with 20a OCP, when I get to the detached structure, I install a MIN. 60amp disconnect ( weather it be a main breaker panel or some other Suitable for Service Equipment disconnect) and be on my marry way.


Hope this helps!

Ok, now I'm confused. If you install a 20a breaker at the main panel, then run your 12-3 feeders to the garage, then install a 60a disconnect at the garage end, what purpose does the disconnect serve? If your overcurrent protection is determined by the 20a breaker at the service panel, why would the disconnect be rated at 40a greater than the overcurrent protection will allow?
MacRoadie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2008, 07:00 PM   #22
liscenced electrician
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Oregon coast
Posts: 997
Rewards Points: 514
Default

Enhancing existing wiring to detached garage


Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRoadie View Post
Ok, now I'm confused. If you install a 20a breaker at the main panel, then run your 12-3 feeders to the garage, then install a 60a disconnect at the garage end, what purpose does the disconnect serve? If your overcurrent protection is determined by the 20a breaker at the service panel, why would the disconnect be rated at 40a greater than the overcurrent protection will allow?

the purpose of the disconnect would be so you can manually shut off power from inside the garage. It would be safe, but not up to code if it were a detatched garage. You would be required to run at least 2 #6s and an #8 nuetral, protected by a 60a breaker with driven ground rods.

The purpose for ground rods, is to make sure the ground and your grounding system in your house, along with your water pipes, all have the same potential.
jimmy21 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2008, 07:08 PM   #23
General Contractor
 
MacRoadie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 76
Rewards Points: 75
Default

Enhancing existing wiring to detached garage


Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy21 View Post
the purpose of the disconnect would be so you can manually shut off power from inside the garage. It would be safe, but not up to code if it were a detatched garage. You would be required to run at least 2 #6s and an #8 nuetral, protected by a 60a breaker with driven ground rods.

The purpose for ground rods, is to make sure the ground and your grounding system in your house, along with your water pipes, all have the same potential.

I understand the need for the disconnect, and the purpose of the ground rod (wasn't questioning the ground). The 2 #6's, 60a breaker, etc. makes much more sense to me than a 20a and 12-3.
MacRoadie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2008, 10:33 PM   #24
Electrician
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Connecticut, Litchfield
Posts: 2,015
Rewards Points: 1,000
Default

Enhancing existing wiring to detached garage


Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy21 View Post
if you did that you feeder wouldn't have a 60 amp disconnect. It would have a 60 amp disconnect downstream from it. You are misinterpreting the code. Flat out. Its saying the 60 amp disconnect must disconnect the feeder. The way your reading it makes no sense at all. Why would the NEC care what size breaker you have downstream of what its talking about protecting?
The disconnect at the outbuilding is not protecting anything, its a disconnect and the NEC REQUIRES it to be rated at 60 amps. Flat out.. I dont know why you find this so hard to believe. and I already asked you to PM me if you have any questions on this instead of turning this thread into something its not.



Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy21 View Post
You can do what you saying legally, if its attached garage, where 225.39 would have nothing to do with it. And further more if its not getting inspected, who gives a crap as long as its safe
are you even an electrician?
chris75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2008, 10:37 PM   #25
Electrician
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Connecticut, Litchfield
Posts: 2,015
Rewards Points: 1,000
Default

Enhancing existing wiring to detached garage


Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRoadie View Post
I understand the need for the disconnect, and the purpose of the ground rod (wasn't questioning the ground). The 2 #6's, 60a breaker, etc. makes much more sense to me than a 20a and 12-3.

Its a DISCONNECT not overload protection, the nec wants it rated at 60 amps, plain and simple...

Last edited by chris75; 07-03-2008 at 10:53 PM.
chris75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2008, 10:39 PM   #26
Floor Sweeper
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Central MN
Posts: 360
Rewards Points: 252
Default

Enhancing existing wiring to detached garage


Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy21 View Post
It would be safe, but not up to code if it were a detatched garage.

You would be required to run at least 2 #6s and an #8 nuetral, protected by a 60a breaker with driven ground rods.
Why not?

Where in the NEC does it say that I cannot run, say a 10/3 feeder to a detached structure? (It doesn't!)

2008 NEC requires a seperate nuetral and ground when you run a feeder. Read 250.32.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy21 View Post
The purpose for ground rods, is to make sure the ground and your grounding system in your house, along with your water pipes, all have the same potential.

No, the ground rods have nothing to do with keeping anything at the same potential. Bonding everything together keeps things at the same potential.
Ground rods are supposed to guard against overvoltage, such as lightning and such.
junkcollector is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2008, 10:41 PM   #27
Electrician
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Connecticut, Litchfield
Posts: 2,015
Rewards Points: 1,000
Default

Enhancing existing wiring to detached garage


Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy21 View Post
the purpose of the disconnect would be so you can manually shut off power from inside the garage. It would be safe, but not up to code if it were a detatched garage. You would be required to run at least 2 #6s and an #8 nuetral, protected by a 60a breaker with driven ground rods.
If you dont believe me, then take that statement over to Mike Holts Forum and post that question. I dont know where your reading that the required DISCONNECT must be fed by a certain size wire?
chris75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2008, 11:00 AM   #28
Electrician
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Connecticut, Litchfield
Posts: 2,015
Rewards Points: 1,000
Default

Enhancing existing wiring to detached garage


Jimmy, have you seen the light yet?
chris75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2008, 01:54 PM   #29
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Upstate,NY
Posts: 141
Rewards Points: 75
Default

Enhancing existing wiring to detached garage


Jeez, I was going to ask some questions about my own sub panel project, but I'm a little scared to now!
white29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2008, 02:12 PM   #30
Electrician
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Connecticut, Litchfield
Posts: 2,015
Rewards Points: 1,000
Default

Enhancing existing wiring to detached garage


Quote:
Originally Posted by white29 View Post
Jeez, I was going to ask some questions about my own sub panel project, but I'm a little scared to now!

I wanted to finish this by PM, its was an nec issue, but please, do not feel scared to ask a question, this thread got hi-jacked and it happens from time to time.

Advertisement

chris75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
breaker , electrical , garage


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Mold in detached garage jkrodger Building & Construction 15 05-01-2009 02:46 PM
Grounding for detached all-metal garage geeswanie Electrical 3 07-03-2008 08:31 AM
Detached Garage Sub Panel Grounding Q integlikewhoa Electrical 13 01-01-2008 07:22 AM
detached garage Kapt Electrical 12 01-17-2007 09:37 AM
Framing a carport on a detached garage nomagic Carpentry 3 05-04-2006 11:43 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts