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Old 12-17-2008, 04:18 PM   #61
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electricity 750 ft away!?


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Originally Posted by Silk View Post
OK, if it's electrical advice that you want, I would run a multiwire branch circuit, it will give you 2 times the current/power with the same voltage drop as a single branch circuit. Bury the cable. You need it to be GFCI protected. I would go with 10/3 w/g UF cable, 20 amp breaker(s)

I think it's great if the kids are involved, sorry if I got the wrong idea.
Does it matter whether the GFCI is indoors, with the outside line wired to the LOAD terminals, or GFCI receptacles outside?

I would also prefer the 10/3 cable, despite my last post talking about 12/2, but that's getting very expensive.
It does make sense that if he is going to go to all the trouble to dig a 750 ft long trench, to "future-proof" the installation with the 10/3.

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Old 12-17-2008, 05:15 PM   #62
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Does it matter whether the GFCI is indoors, with the outside line wired to the LOAD terminals, or GFCI receptacles outside?

.

I would prefer a double pole GFCI breaker feeding the cable, if the cable is GFCI protected then you only have to bury it 12 inches, if it's not, then you have to bury it 2 feet. If the boys are digging by hand, it would make it alot easier.

P.S. I was a little out of sorts this morning. One of my workers was talking about his custody battles with the ex girlfriend, so he picks up his 9 month old last night from the ex and then drops her off with the babysitter last night so he wouldn't have to wake her up this morning to take her to daycare before he went to work.

So the @#%$#^ gets his custody and then "dumps" the kid off with a stranger instead of letting the kid be home with his mother.

Maybe I'm getting cranky in my old age, but I really can't stand most people I run into anymore.

Last edited by Silk; 12-17-2008 at 05:25 PM.
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Old 12-17-2008, 05:48 PM   #63
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electricity 750 ft away!?


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I would prefer a double pole GFCI breaker feeding the cable, if the cable is GFCI protected then you only have to bury it 12 inches, if it's not, then you have to bury it 2 feet. If the boys are digging by hand, it would make it alot easier.
The 12" burial depth is for GFCI protected 15 and 20 A 125 V circuits. Wouldn't a multiwire circuit constitute a 120/240 V circuit and thus not meet the requirements for this install?
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Old 12-17-2008, 06:09 PM   #64
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electricity 750 ft away!?


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The 12" burial depth is for GFCI protected 15 and 20 A 125 V circuits. Wouldn't a multiwire circuit constitute a 120/240 V circuit and thus not meet the requirements for this install?
That's a good question. I'll have to look for it in the 2008 code. Problem is, my "copy" isn't searchable... yet. It's a freebie dl from NFPA in .pdf, but not yet searchable. I'm working on that though<g>.

I like the double-pole GFCI breaker.

Do you think the OP is going to come back here?
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Old 12-17-2008, 07:14 PM   #65
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electricity 750 ft away!?


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That's a good question. I'll have to look for it in the 2008 code. Problem is, my "copy" isn't searchable... yet. It's a freebie dl from NFPA in .pdf, but not yet searchable. I'm working on that though<g>.

http://bulk.resource.org/codes.gov/
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Old 12-17-2008, 07:14 PM   #66
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The 12" burial depth is for GFCI protected 15 and 20 A 125 V circuits. Wouldn't a multiwire circuit constitute a 120/240 V circuit and thus not meet the requirements for this install?

That is an interesting question.

The def. of a multiwire branch circuit is:

Branch Circuit, Multiwire. A branch circuit that consists of two or more ungrounded conductors that have a voltage between them, and a grounded conductor that has equal voltage between it and each ungrounded conductor of the circuit and that is connected to the neutral or grounded conductor of the system.

meaning that each "hot" shall be connected to the neutral, otherwise it wouldn't be part of the circuit, right?

But NEC 210.4 (C) states:

Line-to-Neutral Loads. Multiwire branch circuits shall supply only line-to-neutral loads.
Exception No. 1: A multiwire branch circuit that supplies only one utilization equipment.
Exception No. 2: Where all ungrounded conductors of the multiwire branch circuit are opened simultaneously by the branch-circuit overcurrent device.
FPN: See 300.13(B) for continuity of grounded conductor on multiwire circuits.


Shall serve only line to neutral loads (120 volt), but with exceptions.

Ex. 1. We can wire the treehouse to eliminate this exception.

Ex. 2. We can't eliminate this one because the 2008 NEC requires simutaneous opening of all "hots"

(B) Disconnecting Means. Each multiwire branch circuit shall be provided with a means that will simultaneously disconnect all ungrounded conductors at the point where the branch circuit originates.

So where does that leave us, I believe that if the treehouse is wired with only 120 volt loads, then it is acceptable by code.

The debate would be that someone could come along and change the wiring to 240 volt, But the AHJ is not allowed to enforce the code by what might happen in the future, he is required to enforce the wiring the way it is curently installed.

What do you think 277?
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Old 12-17-2008, 07:57 PM   #67
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I'm no code expert, but just basic logic: nearly any circuit could potentially be modified into something that was a violation...

Anyway I'd definitely run it past the local inspector before dropping $500 on wire though.
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Old 12-17-2008, 08:20 PM   #68
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Copper would be 2/0, AL would be 4/0 for 120/20.
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Old 12-17-2008, 08:25 PM   #69
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What do you think 277?
I think I know how most inspectors would interpret it.

But I think low voltage with a battery is best.
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Old 12-17-2008, 08:58 PM   #70
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meaning that each "hot" shall be connected to the neutral, otherwise it wouldn't be part of the circuit, right?
I don't think so. A typo on your part, right?
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Old 12-17-2008, 09:02 PM   #71
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Copper would be 2/0, AL would be 4/0 for 120/20.
Huh? What are we talking about here?
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Old 12-17-2008, 09:14 PM   #72
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The size of the wire needed for the fact that the OP is wanting to run Electric 750' on a 120volt/20amp circuit. What else did you think, that it was secret talk for the OP being not too smart to run Electric to a tree that children unsupervised can kill themselves with. That in itself is another topic that you would find on http://www.darwinawards.com.
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Old 12-17-2008, 09:19 PM   #73
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The size of the wire needed for the fact that the OP is wanting to run Electric 750' on a 120volt/20amp circuit. What else did you think, that it was secret talk for the OP being not too smart to run Electric to a tree that children unsupervised can kill themselves with. That in itself is another topic that you would find on http://www.darwinawards.com.
So the kids are smart enough to be around plugs that are in the house, but not smart enough to be around plugs that are in the treehouse?
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Old 12-17-2008, 09:20 PM   #74
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Thanks for the link. That's much better than the 2008 copy I have.
I can probably transcribe the changed text from the 2008 into the 2005 pdf and have a working copy of 2008 as well.
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Old 12-17-2008, 09:23 PM   #75
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You don't need 2/0... come on. He's not running a washer and dryer out there.

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