DIY Home Improvement Forum banner

electricity 750 ft away!?

Tags
distance
14K views 95 replies 20 participants last post by  needshelp 
#1 ·
Hey so I need to get electricity up to my kid's tree house which is 750 ft away from our house. I was looking into 3, 250 ft. 8-gauge wires to make it work but am not sure if it would work. Will the current stay strong enough to keep some lights lit if it it plugged into a standard outlet 750 feet away? Thanks in advance for any help. Cheers.
 
#44 · (Edited)
#45 ·
If you had a lot of wind it would be a good option, but a 400 watt windmill is not much power.

You could get low voltage LED lighting to run at the battery voltage. You should not need more than say 50 watts worth of lighting. You could have a small inverter to have an outlet, I would say 500 watt inverter would be a good choice.

Battery, you'd want to use something like two 85 amp hour (each is about the size of a car battery). Unless you like replacing it every year, get what's called an "AGM" deep-cycle lead acid, Concorde makes them.

Batteries will run you about $120 each. Inverter will be $80 or less, plus the windmill cost and a pole to put it on (get it above the tops of the trees if you can).

To be honest, a buried wire will probably save you money in the long run, vs these alternative energy things. Batteries don't last forever.
 
#46 ·
Unless there is a specific need for 120 V, it should be avoided. It is dangerous and just another point of power waste at the inverter. Wire 4 LED head-band lights to some speaker or phone wire. Put a switch at the entrance. A motorcycle battery would run these lights continuously for days, if not weeks. A car battery, even longer. If you only use the lights at night, a small solar trickle charger would be plenty to keep it charged.

Build a vented battery box, with a lock to keep the kids out. Wire the lights and switch to a 5 amp fuse. Wire the solar charger in, and place it somewhere the sun hits t.
 
#49 ·
I'm a little disgusted by this thread.

Give the kids a pile of lumber, and let them build their own damn fort/treehouse. That's how it was done when I was a kid. It will keep them busy all summer, and they will learn something and get some exercise at the same time.

It sounds like the OP is going to build a place for them to sit and play video games all day and get fat and lazy just so the wife isn't bothered by her kids.

Give them flashlights

Or maybe just pay attention to the kids instead of trying to get rid of them.
 
#51 ·
I'm a little disgusted by this thread.

Give the kids a pile of lumber, and let them build their own damn fort/treehouse. That's how it was done when I was a kid. It will keep them busy all summer, and they will learn something and get some exercise at the same time.

It sounds like the OP is going to build a place for them to sit and play video games all day and get fat and lazy just so the wife isn't bothered by her kids.

Give them flashlights

Or maybe just pay attention to the kids instead of trying to get rid of them.
Not a bad idea; the flashlights, that is.
A good LED flashlight will run for a couple days on a set of AA batteries, and provide enough light for whatever the kids will be doing.
The video games don't need an electric service. When the batteries run down, it's time for them to stop playing anyway!
 
#55 ·
OK, if it's electrical advice that you want, I would run a multiwire branch circuit, it will give you 2 times the current/power with the same voltage drop as a single branch circuit. Bury the cable. You need it to be GFCI protected. I would go with 10/3 w/g UF cable, 20 amp breaker(s)

I think it's great if the kids are involved, sorry if I got the wrong idea.
 
#61 ·
Does it matter whether the GFCI is indoors, with the outside line wired to the LOAD terminals, or GFCI receptacles outside?

I would also prefer the 10/3 cable, despite my last post talking about 12/2, but that's getting very expensive.
It does make sense that if he is going to go to all the trouble to dig a 750 ft long trench, to "future-proof" the installation with the 10/3.
 
#58 · (Edited)
I will not give you, or anyone else parenting advice. I am not one, so I have no experience in that field. Mine is electricity, and... trains (model sort, and live sort).

My comment about the flashlight was practical, if all you want is lighting.
However, if you are going to put a small TV or other electrionic up there, then of course you will want 110VAC.

If you can, purchase a 1,000 ft spool of 12/2 UF cable. It will cost you the same as or less than the three 250 ft rolls.
Some of the suggestions to install some yard lights, and maybe a couple other receptacles along the way is a good one. Why not get everything you can from this install.

Using the voltage drop calculator at: http://www.csgnetwork.com/voltagedropcalc.html, you will have a 14.4V drop with a 5A load.
Note: Remember that when using this voltage drop calculator, enter the length of cable you will use from the house to the clubhouse. The program asks for 1/2 the length of the run, but remember that the total run is out and back, which for you woudl be 750 X 2 = 1500 ft. So you need to enter 750 for the calculation.
Whether that is acceptable depends on what the load is and what its specifications are. The type of power supplies that are used in computers will run on a very wide range of voltage, usually from 100V to 240V, but the old fashioned TV will probably not function properly on 100V.

If you think the drop will be too much, you can either run #10 (or larger) cable, or buy a transformer for the load end of the run. There are transformers, reguarded as "autotransformers" which can step up a low line of say 100V to 115 or 120V.
The transformer would have to be rated for the load of course, and be fused for that load, since it would most likely not be rated for the full breaker rating.
You could install the transformer for the devices that require 110-120V, and leave the lighting alone, since there would be no harm in having the bulbs a bit dim.
Another thought is to go with the new CCFL lamps instead of incandescent. They draw a fraction of the current the incandescents draw, but provide the same light. Example: a "60 Watt" CCFL only draws 14 Watts of electricity, while providing the same light as a 60 Watt incandescent bulb.

Note 1: Run this cable from a dedicated circuit breaker. If you are using #12 wire, I would use a 15Amp (not a 20Amp that is allowed for #12 wire), to prevent a load that would cause too much of a voltage drop.
Use weatherproof receptacles outside, and in the club house (since the roof could possibly leak). Use GFCI receptacles outdoors, and in the club house, or alternatively, install a GFCI receptacle in the circuit indoors before the cable exits the house, and wire it so that the run outdoors is protected by the GFCI.

Note 2: When I was a kid, I learned about voltage drop the hard way.
I ran about 75ft of #18 gage lamp cord along home-made utility poles from the house to the back yard, with a plug at the house end and a receptacle at the outside end.
There wasn't a real problem when I connected a spotlight (150W) or two to the cord, but when I tried to connect the electric coffeemaker one day during a family barbecue, and the coffee failed to brew, it didn't take me long to realize that the power was being dissipated as heat along the cord, leaving the coffee pot luke warm.
I replaced the 18 gage cord with 14 gage UF cable, and the problem was solved.
If I had to do it again today, I would use #12 cable instead of 14.

When you get to the point where you are ready to connect this cable to your service panel, do you plan to hire an electricion, or are you going to DIY?
Regardless of the fact that some people on this forum may throw in an "off" comment about the purpose of your installation, there are many more who are willing to help you with your electrical questions.
I am not a licensed electrician, but have done a lot of DIY, and understand how electricity works.
I am also studying the NEC (National Electrical Code) so that I can avoid the delays and extra work involved with failing an inspection because I didn't know about some minor detail that is specified by the code.
 
#76 ·
Would you trust unsupervised kids around Electric outlets in a treehouse, which does not qualify as a safe structure to begin with. If I was the OP, I would ditch the whole idea, and as someone else stated, give them some boards & nails. Worst thing is also, if one of their friends fell from it, the person that built it would be liable, and no amount of Insurance, or lawyer would save them from what would happen in the courts.
 
#82 ·
Gregzoll, he's not running the full capacity of the circuit at the far end, its mainly for lighting as has already been stated on here before. There is no reason to run that big of a wire, not to mention it would never fit on a 20 amp breaker. I think the Op would be fine with anything between 10 gauge and no larger than 8 or 6 gauge wire (even #6 is big for this project). Lights will work plenty fine with any amount of voltage drop, they will just be a little bit dim at the end that's all (of course im reffering to incandescent lights).
 
#83 ·
OK. Here it is.

210.19 Conductors - Minimum Ampacity and Size.
(A) Branch Circuits Not More Than 600 Volts.
(1) General. Branch-circuit conductors shall have an ampacity
not less than the maximum load to be served. Where
a branch circuit supplies continuous loads or any combination
of contiquous and noncontinuous loads, the minimum
branch-circuit conductor size, before the application of any
adjustment or correction factors, shall have an allowable
ampacity not less than the noncontinuous load plus
125 percent of the continuous load.

FPN No.4: Conductors for branch circuits as defined in
Article 100, sized to prevent a voltage drop exceeding
3 percent at the farthest outlet of power: heating, and lighting
loads, or combinations of such loads, and where the
maximum total voltage drop on both feeders and branch
circuits to the farthest outlet does not exceed 5 percent,
provide reasonable efficiency of operation. See FPN No.2
of 215.2(A)(3) for voltage drop on feeder conductors.
 
#86 · (Edited)
With 3% drop (3.6v), 400w at 120v = ~3.3A, gives 1.1 Ω total wire resistance.

1500' loop distance would need <0.73 mΩ/ft. Using copper at 20°C, #9 AWG doesn't quite do it so you'd need #8 AWG.

Heating in this wire due to the 3A would be ≈ +0.2°C above ambient. Power loss in the wire ≈ 12w.
 
#87 ·
you guys know me.... i like simple and cheap! go to your local bigbox store and buy a $50.00 'battery jumper' that recharges in the house. it's capable of running anything 12v dc via 2 cigarette lighter openings in the front. we ran a small tv and a laptop at the campsite.......... i used one for the kid's bus stop at the end of the driveway with 2 nails wired to the wood and just clamped the red to one, the black to the other to light it up! ran decorations 12v for holidays too there the same way. all your sons have to do is remember to bring it back to charge! (we watched tv for over 8 hours on a full charge) simple and cheap.... you guys know me.

DM
 
#88 ·
67# per 100 A·h. You could leave the battery on the ground and run cables up the tree.
You'll need deep-cycle batteries.

No safety problem with 12v but if you short anything your cable insulation will instantly become brittle and have the texture of toast, and your copper will lose its shine.

You'll need a small cart to carry three of these batteries that distance, unless your name is Ahhhnold.

Don't let your clothes touch the batteries or they will get small holes after a month or so (or quicker), and open cuts on your hands will sting.
 
#90 ·
FPN No.4: Conductors for branch circuits as defined in Article 100, sized to prevent a voltage drop exceeding 3 percent
FPN for voltage drop is just a recommendation KB2KB... and yeah if this were something more serious than a treehouse you might want to size the conductors up... but if it were me, I think I'd use 8 or 10 gauge.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top