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DMAC 7 08-08-2012 09:01 PM

Electrical Subpanel
 
I am installing a subpanel in a sleeping cabin at our cottage. The code calls for a separate grounding plate. How do I connect the neutral and ground in the sub panel and the main panel? The code says to connect the neutral to the ground plate in the sub panel.

k_buz 08-08-2012 09:03 PM

What code are you reading? If you search this site for subpanels, you will find umteen million threads on it...there are a couple on the front page alone.

You DO NOT connect the neutral to anything but the neutral bar in a subpanel.

DMAC 7 08-08-2012 09:14 PM

Thanks for your comments. The Ontario code, rule 10-208 says the neutral must be bonded to ground at each building.

stickboy1375 08-08-2012 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DMAC 7 (Post 984598)
Thanks for your comments. The Ontario code, rule 10-208 says the neutral must be bonded to ground at each building.

Your location is a big PLUS, most of use are in the US....

k_buz 08-08-2012 09:27 PM

I don't ever remember reading that difference from any of the Canada guys here. I will be interested to hear the answer to this.

Canucker 08-08-2012 09:28 PM

You don't happen to be using the "Simplified Electrical Code" book, are you?

DMAC 7 08-08-2012 09:35 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Yes , Ontario Book 1, 2012 version.

I havew attached a copy of the page from the book.

Canucker 08-08-2012 09:47 PM

I've talked to more than one electrician here about this suggestion, and they all agree that it is wrong in that book. The only place the neutral and ground should be bonded is at your main panel. We do not differ from the NEC in this regard

DMAC 7 08-08-2012 09:59 PM

Thanks for your thoughts, I thought I understood how to connect it up until I read the book.

So in your view the neutral and ground do not get connected in the new sub panel. The new grounding plate gets connected only to the sub panel and grounding bus.

Do I have that correct?

What do I do with the ground wire in the 14/3 cable? Do I use it to bond the two panels together or do I leave it off at the main panel?

I read something about this creating a parallel return path to the main panel which could defeat the GFI plugs from functioning in the new building.

I went to home depot tonight to get some advice and ended up getting directed to their "wiring 1-2-3 book". In there the author suggested connecting the neutral and the ground in the 14/3 cable to the neutral bus in the main panel.

DMAC 7 08-08-2012 10:08 PM

Let me make my questions easier to answer as they may be getting confusing.

I am running 14/3 from two 15 amp breakers in the main panel to two GFI plugs in the new building. I was going to put a disconnect in the new building just to isolate it in case of a problem.

Questions

At the main panel the neutral comes off the neutral, what do I do with the ground conductor in the 14/3. Does it connect to the neutral or ground in the main panel?

At the disconnect/sub-panel, do I need a separate grounding plate (buildings are 100 ft apart). Do the neutral and ground get connected in any way in the new disconnect?

Thanks again, this is really helpful information.

Canucker 08-08-2012 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DMAC 7 (Post 984654)
Let me make my questions easier to answer as they may be getting confusing.

I am running 14/3 from two 15 amp breakers in the main panel to two GFI plugs in the new building. I was going to put a disconnect in the new building just to isolate it in case of a problem.

Questions

At the main panel the neutral comes off the neutral, what do I do with the ground conductor in the 14/3. Does it connect to the neutral or ground in the main panel?

At the disconnect/sub-panel, do I need a separate grounding plate (buildings are 100 ft apart). Do the neutral and ground get connected in any way in the new disconnect?

Thanks again, this is really helpful information.

Not sure why you need a sub panel, in this instance. I am not an electrician, so I'm not going to tell you how to do this, but if you're patient, by this time tomorrow, you will have good advice on how to proceed. (You will be asked what kind of wire you ran and how you plan to get it to the needed location, as well as a few other things, so be prepared.) good luck

andrew79 08-08-2012 10:40 PM

No sub panel needed for multi wire branch circuit

andrew79 08-08-2012 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DMAC 7
Let me make my questions easier to answer as they may be getting confusing.

I am running 14/3 from two 15 amp breakers in the main panel to two GFI plugs in the new building. I was going to put a disconnect in the new building just to isolate it in case of a problem.

Questions

At the main panel the neutral comes off the neutral, what do I do with the ground conductor in the 14/3. Does it connect to the neutral or ground in the main panel?

Connects to the ground

At the disconnect/sub-panel, do I need a separate grounding plate (buildings are 100 ft apart). Do the neutral and ground get connected in any way in the new disconnect? If your installing a sub panel then yes. A disconnect, no. If you use a mwbc which you should then no.

Thanks again, this is really helpful information.

I've not known that book to have any errors. What your is your p.s. knight book?

andrew79 08-08-2012 10:48 PM

10-208 Grounding connections for two or more buildings or structures supplied from a single service Where two or more buildings or structures are supplied from a single service, (a) the grounded circuit conductor at each of the buildings or structures shall be connected to a grounding electrode and bonded to the non-current-carrying metal parts of the electrical equipment; or (b) except for buildings housing livestock, the non-current-carrying metal parts of the electrical equipment in or on the building or structure shall be permitted to be bonded to ground by a bonding conductor run with the feeder or branch circuit conductors


The wording stinks bit but the grounded circuit conductor is the ground. The neutral is almost always referred to in the cec as the identified conductor.

DMAC 7 08-08-2012 11:01 PM

Thankyou for your reply.

Yes, this is the P.S. Knight Co. Ltd. book.

Do I need a separate grounding plate for the second building (bunkie) or do I just ground to the main panel in the first building (cottage).

If I need a separate ground in second building does anything other than the ground wires/bonding wires get connected to it? PS Knight says yes to the neutral.

Main panel, connect neutral to neutral, ground wire in the 14/3 does it connect to anything? if yes the ground bar or neutral?

Thanks for the help.


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