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Old 04-24-2012, 09:40 AM   #1
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Electrical run to new pool house


We are in the process of redoing the area around our pool. As part of this we are adding a pool house and hot tub (separate from pool).

I have a couple Elecrtical Contractors coming out this weekend to price/put together a plan. Along with talking to several indivuals, I've been lurking around reading and trying to gather info but feel the need to have as much info available prior to getting these estimates and plans. Please excuse any incorrect verbage i might use and appreciate any corrections to my terminoligy

So this is what i have

The pool house is approx 100 ft from the house.
It will have a few and outlets for blenders, minifridge, tv etc
the pool equipement consites of a pump, heater and a sand filter. The pump and current heater run off standard 110 lines (however if i upgrade this I dont know if the new one will require a 220 line

The pool light seems to run off a standard line as well

The hottub requires a 220 40amp line

There will be landscaping lighting as well as 2 more outlets for accesories

The original setup prior to last year had what looks like 6 or 8 guage (3 wire) directly buried about 6-8 inches under ground. it was running what look to be two 20amp circuits from the main panel inside the house. This wire got split to two separate outlets near the pool. One went directly to the pool equipment and on directy to the pool light switch and some landscaping ighting.

With all the enhancements we are making i'm wondering what the best approach will be.

I assume a sub panel in the pool house that has one "main breaker" and has its own ground. Then one run to the pool equipment and one run to the hottub and a couple runs to the accesories i mentioned.

I have seen several replies on here where individuals talk about "if they were doing the job this is how they would do it". Id be interested in some responses

What type of wire would be best to get it to the pool house
Does it run right from the main panel in the house?
Does direct burial make sense or shold i put it in conduit? I'm already digging a trench three feet deep for water and RG6 (which will be pushed thru conduit)

Any question i should make sure i ask the contractors?


Thanks in advance for any input

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Old 04-24-2012, 01:54 PM   #2
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Electrical run to new pool house


Have sub panel installed and all wiring in conduit.

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Old 04-24-2012, 08:23 PM   #3
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Electrical run to new pool house


Was your original job done with permits? I would think 18" deep is required minimum, and I would think conduit would be required. And your "two 20-amp" breakers, could they possibly be one 40-amp double breaker, giving you a 220 line to the pool pump? If you're going to ask questions but don't know what you're asking, you might be better off getting your estimates and THEN posting questions as to if it sounds good. Also, might want to check with your township what their codes are, then you'll know they are giving you at least minimum code.
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Old 04-24-2012, 08:37 PM   #4
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Electrical run to new pool house


Not meaning to sound like I dont want to help but it seems to me like that you are approaching this from the wrong angle. Since you are contracting this job out, it will be more beneficial to you and the contractors bidding the work, to get a good plan or sketch drawn up as to your electrical needs for the pool house. ...

The professional contractor will tell you how it has to be installed by code. So many times projects go haywire and with conflict because the customer did not have a set of plans or at minimum a sketch of what was needed for their project. The contractor needed to have full knowledge of what the customer wants, the equipment that is to be installed, and the mechanical/electrical spec sheets on the equipment. ..

This plan of action also helps to stop contractors coming in with bids that are miles apart, as with a plan/sketch, everyone is on the same page... literally. good luck.
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Old 04-26-2012, 08:45 AM   #5
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Electrical run to new pool house


Thats for some feedback. I have no idea about the original job. I purchased the house in Oct 10. The previous owners were there for 20 years.

The powereline coming out from the house to the pool area was 10/3 direct burial wire from two 'connected' 20 amp single pole breakers on the main panel in the house. When the wire reached the pool area the red wire went to the pool light and to an outlet where ther pool pump (not run off a 220 line was. The white went there as well. The black wire (and white) went to a spotlight, some hardwire landscape lighting and and outlet. Again there was nothing out there that required a 220 line. This whole concept has me miffed and concerned that this was even done

I do actually have a map/layout of where i want everything. I'm looking for more informations so when these guys come out I dont miss something simple or something that s taken for granted

Aside from all the random info i placed in my original post my primary request for opinions/info would be

Placing a sub-panel at the pool house be the way to go? What really does this do other than serve as 'splitter' in laymens turns?

Does this have its own ground rod? And why or why not?

I will have a hot tub up in the pool area. However it is just about half the distance from the house to the pool house. This hot tub requires 40 amp. Should this be run off the pool house or the main breaker. If off the main breaker its a 60 ft from the main panel. if from the pool house its about 40ft. So if i go via the pool house arent I making the run to the hot tub 140 ft?? I'm really curios of this.
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Old 04-26-2012, 09:22 AM   #6
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Electrical run to new pool house


I would look for the electrical contractor to spec a 100 amp, 20 position, main breaker sub panel in the pump house. This will require a 4 wire circuit from the house main panel in either conduit or direct bury cable.

And yes it will require 2 ground rods for the sub panel.


BTW you existing wiring is a 20 amp MWBC (multi Wire Branch Circuit) and unless it comes off a GFCI breaker at the house it should have been buried 24" deep. A MWBC gives you 2, 20 amp 120 volt circuits.
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Old 04-26-2012, 10:15 AM   #7
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Electrical run to new pool house


Befor you decide on the size of the panel you have installed you should get the specs of all the equipment you plan to run out there do a load calculation and add some so you have room for expansion in the future.

Also use large enough conduit for other data lines if you decide to have some cat 5. I would just run a couple cat 5 with the cable tv wire. And make sure you buy direct burial cable.
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Old 04-26-2012, 10:40 AM   #8
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Electrical run to new pool house


I would run a dedicated 40 amp circuit from the house directly to the hot tub and put in a sub panel in the pool house. Do a load calculation for the size of the sub.
Use large enough conduit for the sub panel run. You may want to be able to switch some lights from your main house out by the pool.
Also consider burying another conduit for possible low voltage wires (phone cable, intercom...) Good luck
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Old 04-26-2012, 10:53 AM   #9
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Electrical run to new pool house


Quote:
Originally Posted by AlwayzSomethin View Post
Thats for some feedback. I have no idea about the original job. I purchased the house in Oct 10. The previous owners were there for 20 years.

The powereline coming out from the house to the pool area was 10/3 direct burial wire from two 'connected' 20 amp single pole breakers on the main panel in the house. When the wire reached the pool area the red wire went to the pool light and to an outlet where ther pool pump (not run off a 220 line was. The white went there as well. The black wire (and white) went to a spotlight, some hardwire landscape lighting and and outlet. Again there was nothing out there that required a 220 line. This whole concept has me miffed and concerned that this was even done

I do actually have a map/layout of where i want everything. I'm looking for more informations so when these guys come out I dont miss something simple or something that s taken for granted

Aside from all the random info i placed in my original post my primary request for opinions/info would be

Placing a sub-panel at the pool house be the way to go? What really does this do other than serve as 'splitter' in laymens turns?

Does this have its own ground rod? And why or why not?

I will have a hot tub up in the pool area. However it is just about half the distance from the house to the pool house. This hot tub requires 40 amp. Should this be run off the pool house or the main breaker. If off the main breaker its a 60 ft from the main panel. if from the pool house its about 40ft. So if i go via the pool house arent I making the run to the hot tub 140 ft?? I'm really curios of this.
You don't what your codes were when the pool was put in before you got there, so no use worrying about it if you're replacing it. I'm sure if your new electrician will do it all up to code if you're getting permits and inspections. You can just request 100amp subpanel as an upgrade to your existing setup.
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Old 04-26-2012, 12:33 PM   #10
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Electrical run to new pool house


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Originally Posted by 47_47 View Post
I would run a dedicated 40 amp circuit from the house directly to the hot tub and put in a sub panel in the pool house. Do a load calculation for the size of the sub.
Use large enough conduit for the sub panel run. You may want to be able to switch some lights from your main house out by the pool.
Also consider burying another conduit for possible low voltage wires (phone cable, intercom...) Good luck

I already have 1.5 inch conduit set up to run for rg6 quad coal and two cat 6 lines (one for network the other for communications). I was thinking the same thing about the lighting from the house

I'm curious about your suggestion about running the hot tub from the house as opposed from the pool house. Can you expand on that thought
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Old 04-26-2012, 01:43 PM   #11
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Electrical run to new pool house


Mainly wire cost and ease of a DIY installation. You are going to use the approx the same amount of 8 gauge for the spa from either location. If the spa is from the house, you can then run a smaller sub at the pool for the other loads. Personally, I'd much rather work with a #6 wire for a 60 amp sub panel (if supported by a load calc), than a #2(?) for a 100 amp panel.
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Old 04-26-2012, 01:47 PM   #12
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Electrical run to new pool house


Here's what I would do:

First I'd get all the load data for everything I intend to run in and around the pool house. You're talking pool pump & heater, hot tub, refrigerator, TV, bar appliances, landscape lighting. Add to that the load for lights and receptacles in the pool house. Once I have that I can figure out what size sub panel I need to install.

Since you're talking about 100' from the house and the hot tub will be new, I'm guessing the hot tub will be closer to the pool house than the main house.That's why I included that in the pool house panel load.

When the ECs come out, make sure they do load calcs. Ask them how they arrived at the size for your sub panel.

Rip out the existing direct burial cable and install conduit, one for the sub panel and one for communications. Your plan for 1-1/2" for both will probably work fine. Make sure they are spaced at least 12 inches apart in the ditch to minimize electrical noise or use twisted/shielded cable for the communication lines. (I would space them anyway.)

Call your local inspector and ask what depth the conduit needs to be and make sure the EC follows that. Some inspectors demand to see the conduit before the trench is filled, some don't. You need to be a cop for certain ECs. And unless you install rigid conduit, you want some protection from someone putting a shovel in the ground at a later date. I've seen hand shovels pierce PVC.

Just from what I can get here, I would probably end up installing a 100A 120/240v panel with 20 openings, like jrniles said. Better to have extra room in the panel. Code may require it anyway since you're building a pool house. But I wouldn't even begin to guess. I'd need to know the loads. I would then figure out the breaker requirements and make sure I had extra spaces in the panel.

Let the inspector decide if you need a ground rod or if you should use the ground coming from the house, or both. You have to be careful about creating potential differences when using more than one ground source. This is a subject of much debate here and I just learned to defer to the inspector because he or she is the one who will be approving the installation.

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