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Old 09-14-2012, 05:59 AM   #16
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Electrical Panel question


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Originally Posted by andrew79 View Post
Your nowhere near 117a, you'd never afford the bills for that. I'm not well versed enough with the nec to give you the exact numbers for load calcs but keep in mind a lot of loads are taken at percentages due to the the fact they cycle on and off. The ac may be on a 50a breaker but its doubtfull it draws anywhere near that other than at startup.

If you have a clamp on ampmeter get your handy brother to check the draw on the main feeders and I think you'll be pleasantly suprised with how much headroom you have.
Maybe you can enlighten us with the CEC service load demand calculations for residential.

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Old 09-14-2012, 06:42 AM   #17
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Electrical Panel question


Sorry, phone jumbles up the copy and pasting from my PDF code book for some reason.
Keep in mind of there's electric heat and ac and they aren't used at the same time the largest of the two is used in calculating loads.
8-200 Single dwellings (see Appendix B) (1) The minimum ampacity of service or feeder conductors supplying a single dwelling shall be based on the greater of Item (a) or (b): (a) (b) (2) (i) (ii) (iii) (iv) (v) (vi) (i) a basic load of 5000 W for the first 90 m2 of living area (see Rule 8-110); plus an additional 1000 W for each 90 m2 or portion thereof in excess of 90 m2; plus any electric space-heating loads provided for with demand factors as permitted in Section62 plus any air-conditioning loads with a demand factor of 100%, subject to Rule 8-106(4); plus any electric range load provided for as follows: 6000W for a single range plus 40% of any amount by which the rating of the range exceeds 12kW; plus any electric tankless water heaters or electric water heaters for steamers, swimming pools, hot tubs, or spas with a demand factor of 100%; plus any electric vehicle charging equipment loads with a demand factor of 100%; plus (vii)any loads provided for in addition to those outlined in Items (i) to (vi) at 25% of the rating of each load with a rating in excess of 1500W if an electric range has been provided for, or 100% of the rating of each load with a rating in excess of 1500W up to a total of 6000 W, plus 25% of the load in excess of 6000W if an electric range has not been provided for; or 100 A where the floor area, exclusive of basement floor area, is 80 m2 or more; or (ii) 60 A where the floor area, exclusive of basement floor area, is less than 80 m2. The minimum ampacity of service or feeder conductors from a main service supplying two or more dwelling units of row-housing shall be based on (a) Subrule (1), excluding any electric space-heating loads and any air-conditioning loads, with application of demand factors to the loads as required by Rule 8-202(3)(a)(i) to (v); plus (b) (3) the requirements of Rule 8-202(3)(b), (c), and (d). Notwithstanding Rule 86-302, the total load calculated in accordance with either Subrule (1) or (2) shall not be considered to be a continuous load for application of Rule 8-104
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Old 09-14-2012, 06:44 AM   #18
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8-202 is for multi dwelling units so I didn't bother to include it.
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Old 09-14-2012, 08:40 AM   #19
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Electrical Panel question


I would agree that an upgrade in service to 150 or 200 amps would position you for additional high usage items in the future. However if all your wanting is to add receptacles for a bedroom, a bathroom branch circuit, and lights (lighting branch circuit is already there) I do not see that as any reason to increase your service size.

We can do all the demand calculations on the planet as to what we think you have. It may be that I could change my mind but I doubt it. It sometimes amazes me that it is thought that a demand load calculation is the amperage used 24/7 ...it is not. You likely will never see the demand load calculation show up on a service leg in your lifetime with what you listed.

Now having said that a 2800 square foot home where that total sq. footage is included in the electrical calculation typically would require a minimum 200 amp service at todays standards.
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Old 09-14-2012, 11:11 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by andrew79 View Post
Sorry, phone jumbles up the copy and pasting from my PDF code book for some reason.
Keep in mind of there's electric heat and ac and they aren't used at the same time the largest of the two is used in calculating loads.
8-200 Single dwellings (see Appendix B) (1) The minimum ampacity of service or feeder conductors supplying a single dwelling shall be based on the greater of Item (a) or (b): (a) (b) (2) (i) (ii) (iii) (iv) (v) (vi) (i) a basic load of 5000 W for the first 90 m2 of living area (see Rule 8-110); plus an additional 1000 W for each 90 m2 or portion thereof in excess of 90 m2; plus any electric space-heating loads provided for with demand factors as permitted in Section62 plus any air-conditioning loads with a demand factor of 100%, subject to Rule 8-106(4); plus any electric range load provided for as follows: 6000W for a single range plus 40% of any amount by which the rating of the range exceeds 12kW; plus any electric tankless water heaters or electric water heaters for steamers, swimming pools, hot tubs, or spas with a demand factor of 100%; plus any electric vehicle charging equipment loads with a demand factor of 100%; plus (vii)any loads provided for in addition to those outlined in Items (i) to (vi) at 25% of the rating of each load with a rating in excess of 1500W if an electric range has been provided for, or 100% of the rating of each load with a rating in excess of 1500W up to a total of 6000 W, plus 25% of the load in excess of 6000W if an electric range has not been provided for; or 100 A where the floor area, exclusive of basement floor area, is 80 m2 or more; or (ii) 60 A where the floor area, exclusive of basement floor area, is less than 80 m2. The minimum ampacity of service or feeder conductors from a main service supplying two or more dwelling units of row-housing shall be based on (a) Subrule (1), excluding any electric space-heating loads and any air-conditioning loads, with application of demand factors to the loads as required by Rule 8-202(3)(a)(i) to (v); plus (b) (3) the requirements of Rule 8-202(3)(b), (c), and (d). Notwithstanding Rule 86-302, the total load calculated in accordance with either Subrule (1) or (2) shall not be considered to be a continuous load for application of Rule 8-104
Thank you, intense reading, probably easier from the book, or PDF.
Let me ask you this, with the loads provided by the OP, using the CEC what would be the minimum service size required?
NEC says 125a
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