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Old 11-30-2008, 09:09 AM   #16
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Electrical Panel "cut-in" question


Ok..I'm thinking I'm starting to understand this - thanks guys and thanks Jerry.

Jerry - so, rather than get a 'separate ground lug' as pictured in kbsparky's link in his previous post - I can just get the bonding lug you linked to?

So, I need to do the following:

  1. Remove the bar that currently ties both bars together.
  2. Remove the green screw completely off the lug on the right bar.
  3. Install the bonding lug that Jerry linked me to on the LEFT bar ( Get the ECLKB1 bonding lug and you'll be able to use the left bar as the ground bar.
    http://www.murrayconnect.com/NR/rdon...D/0/ECLKB1.pdf
  4. Take the white neutrals that are currently on the left side bar and swap them with the bare ground wires on the right side bar - so that the bare ground wires will then be on the left side bar and the white neutrals will be on the right side bar.
Is that it? Everything else is good?

What exactly attaches to the new green screw on the bonding lug which would be attached to the left side bar??

Thanks again guys for your patience and help.

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Old 11-30-2008, 09:30 AM   #17
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Electrical Panel "cut-in" question


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Originally Posted by Todd-sta View Post
Hey InPhase/and KBSparky - anyway you guys could do a rough pencil sketch and upload them - on how this panel and it's wires should actually appear with the correct "ground bars" "bonding lugs" etc?

I'd like to get a visual on what all this means.... thanks guys!

How about a photo of my panel? It is very organized, and it is very easy to see whats what. This is a 4 wire setup, Just like yours. Your panel should have an additional ground wire running to your ground rods as discussed earlier.

Electrical Panel "cut-in" question-img_4692.jpg

You can clearly see how the ground are all attached to the ground bar which is bonded via the metal strap and green grounding screw to the panel box. The neutral bar is isolated via the insulated plastic holders.

Does that help?

Jamie
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Old 11-30-2008, 12:20 PM   #18
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Electrical Panel "cut-in" question


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Originally Posted by jerryh3 View Post
Get the ECLKB1 bonding lug and you'll be able to use the left bar as the ground bar after you remove the tie strap and bonding screw on the neutral(right) bar.
http://www.murrayconnect.com/NR/rdon...D/0/ECLKB1.pdf
This looks like the simplest solution here. Funny it was on a Murray site.
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Old 11-30-2008, 03:48 PM   #19
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Electrical Panel "cut-in" question


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Originally Posted by kbsparky View Post
This looks like the simplest solution here. Funny it was on a Murray site.
Simple is always better. Add the lug, remove the tie, move the bonding screw, switch the neutrals and grounds, crack a beer.
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Old 11-30-2008, 05:02 PM   #20
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Electrical Panel "cut-in" question


So, to recap in my simple mind....

  1. I should REMOVE the connector bar (between left and right sides)
  2. Move the white wires over to the right side - where the #2 Neutral copper is coming into the panel from my house panel.
  3. Move the bare ground wires over to the left side.
  4. Attach a ground lug (on the left side of my panel) and attach my ground wire (coming in from my house pane) to this lug.
  5. Move the green screw over to this lug and screw it in till it touches the panel OR connect a ground strap from the ground side to the box and screw the green screw into the metal ground strap through the metal box.
  6. Ground rod wire goes from ground side terminal, through conduit to outside ground rod - attaches to that rod - then goes to second ground rod - attaches to that rod.
Finished.

Do I have this correct??

Thanks guys.

Last edited by Todd-sta; 11-30-2008 at 05:04 PM.
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Old 11-30-2008, 05:55 PM   #21
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Electrical Panel "cut-in" question


Maybe I'm just thick in the head(), but I don't see how the Murray strap will be the simplest solution. I mean, first you have to find the strap. Then you have to mark the hole, drill the can, and tap it to accept the bond screw. Then install it. If he buys the ground bar, which is readily available at Home Depot or Lowes, all he has to do is screw it into the pre-drilled and pre-tapped holes provided by the manufacturer.

Murray Bond Strap, tools required:

Drill
Drill bit
Tap
Screwdriver

Ground Bar, tools required:

Screwdriver
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Old 11-30-2008, 06:00 PM   #22
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Electrical Panel "cut-in" question


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Originally Posted by InPhase277 View Post
Maybe I'm just thick in the head(), but I don't see how the Murray strap will be the simplest solution. I mean, first you have to find the strap. Then you have to mark the hole, drill the can, and tap it to accept the bond screw. Then install it. If he buys the ground bar, which is readily available at Home Depot or Lowes, all he has to do is screw it into the pre-drilled and pre-tapped holes provided by the manufacturer.

Murray Bond Strap, tools required:

Drill
Drill bit
Tap
Screwdriver

Ground Bar, tools required:

Screwdriver
According to the instructions, the box should already have a tapped hole. Are we talking about the same thing?
http://www.murrayconnect.com/NR/rdon...D/0/ECLKB1.pdf
If it's not, I agee the ground bar kit would be a better solution(although it does clutter the box a little more)

Update: After a little searching...it looks like that little lug is around $30. Just get the ground bar kit and remove the tie and bonding screw.

Last edited by jerryh3; 11-30-2008 at 06:16 PM.
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Old 11-30-2008, 06:08 PM   #23
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Electrical Panel "cut-in" question


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Originally Posted by jamiedolan View Post
How about a photo of my panel?

Does that help?

Jamie
Jamie, I don't want to nit-pick, but I sure would like to see that panel a little more tidy. After all the work you put into it, it would be a shame to let it look like a THHN bomb went off in it. A few well placed zip-ties would make short work of it. Here's a couple of panels I just installed, the one on the left is new all the way back to the service equipment and contains new branch circuits. The one on the right is just a swap out and contains all the old circuits. And before anyone calls me out, the white wire attached to the breaker in the right hand panel did get colored red, but not before I took the pics!
Attached Thumbnails
Electrical Panel "cut-in" question-010.jpg   Electrical Panel "cut-in" question-011.jpg  

Last edited by InPhase277; 11-30-2008 at 06:11 PM.
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Old 11-30-2008, 06:27 PM   #24
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Electrical Panel "cut-in" question


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Originally Posted by InPhase277 View Post
Jamie, I don't want to nit-pick, but I sure would like to see that panel a little more tidy. After all the work you put into it, it would be a shame to let it look like a THHN bomb went off in it. A few well placed zip-ties would make short work of it. Here's a couple of panels I just installed, the one on the left is new all the way back to the service equipment and contains new branch circuits. The one on the right is just a swap out and contains all the old circuits. And before anyone calls me out, the white wire attached to the breaker in the right hand panel did get colored red, but not before I took the pics!
That looks much more organized than my panel. Do you group and tie the wire together in any particular order (i.e. grouping the neutrals?) or just bundle them all for neatness?

I still have atleast 6 more circuits I need to get fed into the panel, ends up being alot of wires.

RE: The OP's question, I must be missing something, if he swaps the neutrals and grounds and puts them on the correct bars, then why does he need to add the lug? The built in bar on the left says bond when lug is removed.

Jamie
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Old 11-30-2008, 06:37 PM   #25
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Electrical Panel "cut-in" question


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Originally Posted by jerryh3 View Post
According to the instructions, the box should already have a tapped hole. Are we talking about the same thing?
http://www.murrayconnect.com/NR/rdon...D/0/ECLKB1.pdf
If it's not, I agee the ground bar kit would be a better solution(although it does clutter the box a little more)

Update: After a little searching...it looks like that little lug is around $30. Just get the ground bar kit and remove the tie and bonding screw.
I suppose it does have a hole, it just looks from the pics that it is a solid piece of plastic there. If the hole is indeed there, then perhaps the right hand tie strap and lug could be removed and placed on the right without buying anything?

And Todd, no matter what means you find to bond the can, be it ground bar or tie strap on the left, the rest of your list is correct. Remove the jumper between bars, and swap sides with the white and bare wires.
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Old 11-30-2008, 06:46 PM   #26
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Electrical Panel "cut-in" question


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Originally Posted by jamiedolan View Post
That looks much more organized than my panel. Do you group and tie the wire together in any particular order (i.e. grouping the neutrals?) or just bundle them all for neatness?

I still have atleast 6 more circuits I need to get fed into the panel, ends up being alot of wires.

RE: The OP's question, I must be missing something, if he swaps the neutrals and grounds and puts them on the correct bars, then why does he need to add the lug? The built in bar on the left says bond when lug is removed.

Jamie
Nothing special. The wires closest to the bar land first, followed by the ones further away. These wires are solid, so I didn't need to tie them, I just had to shape them. But a neat panel is easier to work in later on, and it doesn't take too much to make it that way. I figured you were adding more circuits, but wanted to get it out there that I am holding you to a high standard!
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Old 11-30-2008, 06:54 PM   #27
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Electrical Panel "cut-in" question


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Nothing special. The wires closest to the bar land first, followed by the ones further away. These wires are solid, so I didn't need to tie them, I just had to shape them. But a neat panel is easier to work in later on, and it doesn't take too much to make it that way. I figured you were adding more circuits, but wanted to get it out there that I am holding you to a high standard!

My panel is a mess. No, I didn't do it myself, I probably should organize it...
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Old 11-30-2008, 08:06 PM   #28
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Thanks everyone! Have a great week.
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Old 11-30-2008, 08:21 PM   #29
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Electrical Panel "cut-in" question


I totally agree with the idea of a neat panel. Leaving wires long and routing them around the sides neatly allows for slack should you need to move a breaker or make other alterations. I did alarm system for years and having slack wire in a panel saved my rear many times!

Below is a picture of a panel update I did in my home about 3 months ago.

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Old 11-30-2008, 11:18 PM   #30
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Electrical Panel "cut-in" question


Grounds and neutrals must be seperated in sub panels.

Typically, I remove the jumper and green screw and terminate the neutrals on the right side. Then I run a jumper from the left side to the can and terminate all grounds.


OR....leave the jumper, remove the green screw and install a ground bus kit which screws directly to the can and terminate all grounds there.

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