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Old 09-27-2011, 11:47 PM   #1
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Electrical Line To Dishwasher - Faulty??


I had a dishwasher installed this past week. I had the breaker off when the installer arrived. After it was installed I turned on the breaker and the dishwasher did not turn on. The installer then checked to make sure the line was live, and it was, so we thought it was a faulty dishwasher. We swapped out the dishwasher with a new one and the same issue. The installer then said we have an issue with the line. I'm not sure why if the line is live, why there is an issue with the line. I thought a line either has electric current or it doesn't - how could it be faulty line in that case? I also noticed that when the breaker is turned on to the Dishwasher, that one of the GFCI outlets in the kitchen is in fault mode (red light)---not sure why that would be because when the dishwasher breaker is off that particular outlet works just fine.
So my questions are:
1. Could the installer have not hooked out the dishwasher's power wrong (twice??)
2. Is it a bad line or maybe wrong amps? (its a yellow line)
3. How is the GFCI outlet involved?

thanks for the time....
-Mike

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Old 09-28-2011, 12:02 AM   #2
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Electrical Line To Dishwasher - Faulty??


1) If the GFCI tripped he wired it wrong.
2) Dishwashers run on 15 amps.
3) Did you re-set the GFCI?

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Old 09-28-2011, 02:27 AM   #3
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Electrical Line To Dishwasher - Faulty??


Was this dishwasher is on own circuit ?? just think very carefull on this one due I read your question due you may have MWBC { multiwire branch circuit }

I have a feeling that the GFCI and dishwasher circuit is not wired up correct.

If you are confortable with electrique stuff then turn the breaker off on BOTH GFCI and dishwasher breaker and take the GFCI out from the wall BUT do not disconnect any wires at all and tell us if you have red conductor in there or not and tell us how the GFCI is hook up at the moment you may want to take a photo to help us a bit if you can able do that.

I think someone did hook up the netural on wrong spot espcally with MWBC they are tricky to deal if you have single GFCI on one side of MWBC and other side of MWBC is sans GFCI { to the dishwashwer }

Merci,
Marc
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Old 09-28-2011, 05:15 AM   #4
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Electrical Line To Dishwasher - Faulty??


I second Marc's prediction: it's connected wrong. Somehow the installer wired the dishwasher between it's own hot (from half of a multi-wire branch circuit) and the neutral downstream of that GFCI receptacle. Thus, as soon as the dishwasher draws any power (even just in standby) the GFCI trips, because the return path is through the GFCI but the source is not so it senses an imbalance and trips.
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Old 09-28-2011, 10:09 AM   #5
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Electrical Line To Dishwasher - Faulty??


Thanks for the quick replies. Yes I am comfortable with basic electrical wiring. I will take picture of GFCI outlet wiring and post this evening. I will also try to get a pic of the wiring to the Dishwasher...
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Old 09-28-2011, 05:03 PM   #6
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Electrical Line To Dishwasher - Faulty??


It's the dishwasher wiring that matters, not the GFCI wiring. However, pics alone probably won't tell us much. You'd have to do some testing to figure it out.
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Old 09-28-2011, 05:24 PM   #7
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Electrical Line To Dishwasher - Faulty??


Ok. What is it I should test or exactly how should the Dishwasher be wired in conjunction with the GFCI?
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Old 09-28-2011, 06:04 PM   #8
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Electrical Line To Dishwasher - Faulty??


Was this a Lowe's, Best Buy or Sear's installer?
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Old 09-28-2011, 07:43 PM   #9
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Electrical Line To Dishwasher - Faulty??


Quote:
Originally Posted by gregzoll
Was this a Lowe's, Best Buy or Sear's installer?
How much experience do you need to qualify for that position j/p "Laughing"
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Old 09-28-2011, 09:06 PM   #10
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Electrical Line To Dishwasher - Faulty??


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How much experience do you need to qualify for that position j/p "Laughing"
That is what you are for. Only people that qualify are the same types that Best Buy hires for their Idiot Squad.
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Old 09-29-2011, 12:34 AM   #11
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Electrical Line To Dishwasher - Faulty??


Quote:
Originally Posted by frenchelectrican View Post
Was this dishwasher is on own circuit ?? just think very carefull on this one due I read your question due you may have MWBC { multiwire branch circuit }

I have a feeling that the GFCI and dishwasher circuit is not wired up correct.

If you are confortable with electrique stuff then turn the breaker off on BOTH GFCI and dishwasher breaker and take the GFCI out from the wall BUT do not disconnect any wires at all and tell us if you have red conductor in there or not and tell us how the GFCI is hook up at the moment you may want to take a photo to help us a bit if you can able do that.

I think someone did hook up the netural on wrong spot espcally with MWBC they are tricky to deal if you have single GFCI on one side of MWBC and other side of MWBC is sans GFCI { to the dishwashwer }

Merci,
Marc

Ok I removed the dishwasher and GFCI outlet. The dishwasher wire looks like your typical yellow wire casing coming out of the wall with a white black and ground. The GFCI on the other hand is complex with multiple wires. I attached two pics. To me it seems he installer hooked up the dishwasher correctly black to black, and white to white, is there some specific way the ground is supposed to be attached in MWBC? . As for the GFCI, check out the pic and hopefully you can spot something wrong.. In the more close up detailed pic you can see the yellow casing, and I assuming that's from the Dishwasher?
Attached Thumbnails
Electrical Line To Dishwasher - Faulty??-gfci_1.jpg   Electrical Line To Dishwasher - Faulty??-gfci_2.jpg  

Last edited by mike6679; 09-29-2011 at 12:37 AM.
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Old 09-29-2011, 01:30 AM   #12
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Electrical Line To Dishwasher - Faulty??


Quote:
Originally Posted by mike6679 View Post
Ok I removed the dishwasher and GFCI outlet. The dishwasher wire looks like your typical yellow wire casing coming out of the wall with a white black and ground. The GFCI on the other hand is complex with multiple wires. I attached two pics. To me it seems he installer hooked up the dishwasher correctly black to black, and white to white, is there some specific way the ground is supposed to be attached in MWBC? . As for the GFCI, check out the pic and hopefully you can spot something wrong.. In the more close up detailed pic you can see the yellow casing, and I assuming that's from the Dishwasher?
I've been staring at this for 5 minutes and I can't trace the wires through that mess. Can you spread them out so we can see what's connected to what? I think I'm right - the dishwasher's hot and neutral are connected one to the line and one to the load side of the GFCI so it trips instantly. Can't tell for sure, though.
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Old 09-29-2011, 01:50 AM   #13
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Electrical Line To Dishwasher - Faulty??


Pretty hard to say but I know for sure IMO the red wire hook up to single black wire that is dishwasher { If I figure it right } and black wire to the GFCI { that is the incomming source } then follow the incomming white wire to see which one it did land at first the wirenut or at the GFCI first.

The 12-3 NM cable I am pretty sure that is incomming source so the rest of outgoing is 12-2 NM and I know the dishwasher side is hook up correct so therefore the biggest issue you will have to find which netural is incomming and one go to dishwasher and the rest of countertop circuit.

And verfiy at the breaker box you will have to take the cover off and look for dishwasher breaker and other breaker for GFCI you should see red et black conductor.

Readers .,, This set up is legit due the OP's wiring did use the wirenut before the device so that is legit but if hook up to the device for split circuit receptale then it must have two pole breaker per modern NEC codé the key issue is the Yoke.

Take other photo in angle where the dishwasher conductor goes and incomming source is. we need see it little more clear on it.


Merci,
Marc
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Old 09-29-2011, 09:34 AM   #14
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Electrical Line To Dishwasher - Faulty??


Use Paint to put in arrows with text blocks, and circle those groups for what. Also, label with paint what is Line & Load on the gfci.
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Old 09-29-2011, 09:44 AM   #15
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Electrical Line To Dishwasher - Faulty??


I agree that it looks like the white for the DW is off the load of the GFI instead of being spliced into the incoming neutral group.

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