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Old 03-04-2009, 03:47 PM   #16
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Electrical Engineer allowed to do Electrical work?


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Originally Posted by Wildie View Post
I was always under the impression that the electrical code was in fact written by engineers! Backed up by a few lawyers!

Am I wrong, with this supposition?
Written by industry and a few consultants on a very tight leash?
You don't need lawyers if you buy a few judges (just kidding. . .).


Last edited by Yoyizit; 03-04-2009 at 03:50 PM.
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Old 03-05-2009, 07:53 AM   #17
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Electrical Engineer allowed to do Electrical work?


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I was always under the impression that the electrical code was in fact written by engineers!
This would seem to imply that electrical codes are designed to avoid potential problems by design. However, I think it is the other way around!

You have a nasty electrical caused fire in a night club and many people die, then there is a public outcry to "do something" to prevent this from ever happening again. Then those in the electrical industry come out with new electrical codes to address that specific situation.

Or a small child gets electrocuted by a metal garage door and a malfunctioning garage door opener, then they say "OK all outlets in a garage must now be GFCI".

I think most electrical codes are the result of many tragic accidents in the past.
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Old 03-05-2009, 08:01 AM   #18
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Electrical Engineer allowed to do Electrical work?


Oh, and to supplement my bloggian diatribe, I have learned a wealth of knowledge from some of the professionals in this group. Stubbie, Speedy, Chris, Nab, 220, Micro, JRClen are some names that come to mind. I know that there are others too and I don't mean to exclude any of you (you know who you are). Proof that every day is another opportunity to learn something.

On another note, I've done some posting in some of the other groups on this site and I must say, the quality of the answers and advice that people get in this (electrical) group far surpasses that of any other. Great work guys!

Jim
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Old 03-05-2009, 08:57 AM   #19
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The short answer is NO.

The system is setup as a very closed shop and doesn't seem to allow for any exemptions for professionally qualified engineers - effectively, the only way to obtain a licence is via an apprenticeship.

In my view, the system is well overdue for an overhaul.
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Old 03-05-2009, 08:58 AM   #20
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Electrical Engineer allowed to do Electrical work?


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Originally Posted by Billy_Bob View Post
This would seem to imply that electrical codes are designed to avoid potential problems by design. However, I think it is the other way around!

You have a nasty electrical caused fire in a night club and many people die, then there is a public outcry to "do something" to prevent this from ever happening again. Then those in the electrical industry come out with new electrical codes to address that specific situation.

Or a small child gets electrocuted by a metal garage door and a malfunctioning garage door opener, then they say "OK all outlets in a garage must now be GFCI".

I think most electrical codes are the result of many tragic accidents in the past.
. . .only some of which can be foreseen.
What electricity can do is understood. What people have done with it, and will do with it, is not.
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Old 03-05-2009, 09:08 AM   #21
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. . .only some of which can be foreseen.
What electricity can do is understood. What people have done with it, and will do with it, is not.
too true.... just look around here at some of the pics people actually thought would be a good idea!!!!?? lol
it's unfortunate people don't take the time to understand it before they play with it..... and yes, i said PLAY! heh heh

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Old 03-05-2009, 09:13 AM   #22
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The system is setup as a very closed shop and doesn't seem to allow for any exemptions for professionally qualified engineers - effectively, the only way to obtain a licence is via an apprenticeship.
Johnny-

You talking about licenses for engineers or electricians?

Whereas both engineers and electricians must actually do work prior to obtaining their respective licenses, IMO, the electricians' Journeyman exam seems pretty brutal and appears to do a good job of gauging whether he or she has indeed learned their craft. I've seen prior copies of PE licensing exams and some of questions are a complete joke. In fact, they say that the PE exam is so much more applied. It isn't. I noticed a lot of questions that I could have answered fresh out of college with no experience beyond my education. IMO, the PE licensing system is what is in need of an overhaul.

$.02

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Old 03-05-2009, 07:42 PM   #23
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johnnyb14 is probably the same person as the OP.
He has posted this exact same reply on most of the boards that the OP posted to, even ones that have absolutely no relation to electrical work.

johnnyb14 - IP: 117.199.22.174
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Old 03-05-2009, 08:44 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Speedy Petey View Post
johnnyb14 is probably the same person as the OP.
He has posted this exact same reply on most of the boards that the OP posted to, even ones that have absolutely no relation to electrical work.

johnnyb14 - IP: 117.199.22.174
He posted in avsforum also, http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1126161, that's how I found this site.
(nice site btw, I've been looking over the threads, good info sharing).

Mike R,
( and I've been a P.E. since 1990, so don't hold that against me ok?)
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Old 03-05-2009, 09:00 PM   #25
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Electrical Engineer allowed to do Electrical work?


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Originally Posted by Speedy Petey View Post
johnnyb14 is probably the same person as the OP.
He has posted this exact same reply on most of the boards that the OP posted to, even ones that have absolutely no relation to electrical work.

johnnyb14 - IP: 117.199.22.174

Doesn't make sense as to why somebody would do this.

BTW I looked up his ip in a blacklist and found that some isps reject his ip because of spam. Although, it could be wrong.

Last edited by rgsgww; 03-05-2009 at 09:03 PM.
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Old 03-05-2009, 09:46 PM   #26
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Electrical Engineer allowed to do Electrical work?


Certainly, some code requirements are a 'knee jerk' reaction to a tragedy! Not all though! There are rules such as conduit fill, types of insulation, mechanical anchorage, are the results of lab development. These requirements are established by engineers, setting up experimental situations, using both mechanical and electrical test gear, to find the point where the equipment fails.
I do know of one rule that was a knee jerk reaction in my area! The code originally required receptacles to have the grounding socket down and it was changed to have it up at the top!
The explanation was that a picture, hung using a horizontal wire on the frame, happened to fall down. The wire hooked across the parallel blades of the a plug, the short heated the wire and caused a fire!
Is this a universal rule now?
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Old 03-06-2009, 05:49 AM   #27
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Electrical Engineer allowed to do Electrical work?


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Originally Posted by johnnyb14 View Post
The short answer is NO.

The system is setup as a very closed shop and doesn't seem to allow for any exemptions for professionally qualified engineers - effectively, the only way to obtain a licence is via an apprenticeship.

In my view, the system is well overdue for an overhaul.
___________

Electrical contractor Seattle

But the long answer is YES, and you don't know what you are talking about. It is state specific. In my state a EE can take his Journeyman's test immediately upon recieving his Bachelor's. I'm not sure but I think if he works as a EE for 1 year he can skip the J'man and go right for his Master. Either way, no apprenticeship is required.

I wish people would quit posting their state rules and pretending they apply nationwide. Even worse is those that post their municipality requirements for the NEC.
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Old 03-06-2009, 05:59 AM   #28
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The code originally required receptacles to have the grounding socket down and it was changed to have it up at the top!
i asked about this in another thread a while back, and i don't think anyone came up with an answer as to what is right. so again... is it ground up.... or ground down????? what is CODE on this?????? (fyi, MY elec. inspector says it doesn't matter)

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Old 03-06-2009, 06:24 AM   #29
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i asked about this in another thread a while back, and i don't think anyone came up with an answer as to what is right. so again... is it ground up.... or ground down????? what is CODE on this?????? (fyi, MY elec. inspector says it doesn't matter)

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The code is silent on this issue, therefore it is ok either way.

If you put the ground up you are wrong through!
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Old 03-06-2009, 06:54 AM   #30
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i've always put them ground down, rarely even see them ground up... just another weird thing to think about, i guess.
i suppose if i needed to put any in SIDEways, i'd have the neutral up. i actually like the idea of sinking the whole outlet into the wall an inch or two! then it won't matter either way.

DM

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