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-   -   Electrical Engineer allowed to do Electrical work? (http://www.diychatroom.com/f18/electrical-engineer-allowed-do-electrical-work-39473/)

SarahJennifer 03-02-2009 09:34 AM

Electrical Engineer allowed to do Electrical work?
 
hi,m
Have been reading in some other posts and the Electrical Safety Act 2002 that Electrical Engineers are able to carry out household electrical works? IS this true or have I misread the info? Also if this is the case, ie that electrical work can be carried out by an engineer, how does one get a cert of compliance.

Thanks

Speedy Petey 03-02-2009 09:40 AM

In almost every place a home OWNER can work on their own home.

I will say, an EE really is pretty far removed from construction electric. They have theory in common but not much else.

InPhase277 03-02-2009 09:55 AM

From the wording of your post it sounds like you are either in the U.K. or Australia. Most folks here are American or Canadian, so you may not find the answer you are looking for. But, as Speedy said, engineers are usually very far removed from actual wiring experience. The vast majority of them that I've been unlucky enough to work with were literally morons, and couldn't walk and chew gum at the same time.

Here in most States, an engineer would also have to carry a license as an electrical contractor to perform any real electrical installations. Point is, check with your local building control.

chris75 03-02-2009 10:48 AM

IMO, an EE is worse type of person doing electrical work. :laughing:

Stubbie 03-02-2009 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris75 (Post 239124)
IMO, an EE is worse type of person doing electrical work. :laughing:

Absolutely....they are so wrapped up in the mathmatics of theory they spend most of their time disputing the electrical code, the manufacturers and anybody else that an electrician follows to be compliant. And when they are not doing that they are specifying flush mount panels for concrete walls....:laughing:

rgsgww 03-02-2009 11:54 AM

I agree with everyone here, EE are not even close to the actual construction electric. Probably just as good as any newcomer diyer in understanding code...

Come to think about it, some are very stubborn and wont follow code!

Stubbie 03-02-2009 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SarahJennifer (Post 239079)
hi,m
Have been reading in some other posts and the Electrical Safety Act 2002 that Electrical Engineers are able to carry out household electrical works? IS this true or have I misread the info? Also if this is the case, ie that electrical work can be carried out by an engineer, how does one get a cert of compliance.

Thanks

I suppose we should get off the back of the EE's. In the USA if you are a homeowner generally you are allowed to do electrical work without license so long as you pull a permit when a permit is required. You don't need to pull permits for simple replacements like switches, light fixtures....etc..
Being an EE does not give you an electrical license or cerification and you just don't go down and take a test to get a license.

220/221 03-02-2009 12:24 PM

Quote:

IMO, an EE is worse type of person doing electrical work. :laughing:
When I hear "My husband is an EE" on a troubleshoot, I roll my eyes ad get ready for the worst. :yes:

They tend to complicate things :jester:

Yoyizit 03-02-2009 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SarahJennifer (Post 239079)
that electrical work can be carried out by an engineer

If it's a politically-connected EE who is biding his time until he becomes a manager, then no.

DangerMouse 03-02-2009 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stubbie (Post 239138)
And when they are not doing that they are specifying flush mount panels for concrete walls....:laughing:

tnkz stubbie! i needed a good laugh today!

DM

chris75 03-02-2009 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 220/221 (Post 239170)
When I hear "My husband is an EE" on a troubleshoot, I roll my eyes ad get ready for the worst. :yes:

They tend to complicate things :jester:

You too huh? Actually did work for one that did have his license, my first question was, so why did you call us? :laughing:

BigJimmy 03-02-2009 02:05 PM

I am an electrical engineer and I still agree with what the pro's are saying. Heck, when I go into a meeting and someone hands me a card with the letters "PE" following their name, I get scared. After all, the license is awarded to anyone who can pass the test and it ain't hands-on. There are some exceptions though.

I had a Korean EE professor in college who began his career as a TV repairman (remember back when those existed?!) and then later in life went through school all the way up to PhD. He used to get all excited in his classes, talking about what buffoons the people are that write EE textbooks and how the typical EE undergraduate who walks away with a 4.0/4.0 cannot replace a lightbulb. And this guy was a part of the team that invented MRI technology. At one point, he wanted to offer a course in troubleshooting and repairing a list of common household electronics devices. His take on this was, the list comprised all of the most important electronics "building blocks," those which everyone should be familiar with. Further, he wanted there to be a great emphasis on troubleshooting. The EE department tabled his idea as they felt that it was more appropriate for a trade/technical school program and did not belong in the curriculum of an accredited university. Dumb. Entirely.

I firmly believe that the biggest problem with college-educated electrical engineers is a lack of hands-on knowledge with the products and materials with which they design. Raceway and circuit layout is a good example. I've personally seen several designs that, following even a cursory review, warranted such ratings as "not constructible," "impractical" or "needlessly difficult." Now, if you took that same engineer and had him working in the field for a few months laying out, bending and installing raceways (and working with the other trades in the process), he'd gain a wealth of insight that would (hopefully) be reflected in much better design. I've seen engineers defend poor design by saying "it's acceptable according to the NEC" without realizing that the code deals in theoretical maximums/minimums whose limits don't always translate into best-practice installation (I've seen countless instances of GF's uttering things like "you have GOT to be profanity removed kidding" or "Let's get this profanity removed engineer out here and see how HE likes pulling 9-#12 solid THHN's through a 1/2 pipe with 315 degrees of bend in it").

On the other hand, some of us realized long ago that when you befriend the skilled trades that you work with, you can learn a wealth of knowledge and develop skills that no college university can. I always found that, when they realized that I was watching them because I was sincerely interested in understanding the how' and why's of their crafts (and not some punk, arrogant engineer that was looking down my nose for something to rip into them about), they all turned into teachers. Now, I've always been curious to know why things work both in theory and in practice and I've found that truly good design borrows from both. I owe a lot of my success to the electricians that I befriended along the way especially those that were gracious enough to share their knowledge with me. And some of those guys would come to me for technical/theoretical explanations of things like open-circuited CT's, induction heating, reactive power and therein, I could augment their understanding as I borrowed from an entirely different skill set.

Don't get me started on the NEC and inspectors. I don't always agree with them (esp. when they start pulling this AHJ ****) but I'll bite my tongue and keep my mouth shut in the name of maintaining diplomacy. As far as the NEC is concerned, it's come along way since they reorganized it several years ago. But I still find occasion to argue certain requirements and often wonder why it has to be so taciturn and oft nebulous. Like I say-there isn't enough time in the day and beer in the fridge to get into that!

And so, in response to the OP, just because someone studied electrical engineering doesn't qualify them to perform professional, safe and code-compliant electrical installations.

Nice to see so many familiar faces!
:thumbsup:

micromind 03-04-2009 12:47 AM

That's one of the best posts I've ever seen, Jimmy. Exactly accurate in every respect!

Rob

P.S. Don't even think about getting me started on EE's!!

Wildie 03-04-2009 04:41 PM

I was always under the impression that the electrical code was in fact written by engineers! Backed up by a few lawyers!

Am I wrong, with this supposition?

BigJimmy 03-04-2009 04:46 PM

Wildie-

Considering how confusing it is sometimes, it must be written by engineers and lawyers.


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