Electric Setup For A Welding Machine - Electrical - DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum


Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-18-2009, 07:49 AM   #1
Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1
Rewards Points: 10
Default

electric setup for a welding machine


Hi,

I try to figure out how to do my electric setup for a new welding machine. In the manual, it say that I should go for a 50A circuit breaker and max 90 ft. cable (AWG 12/3).

The place I want to put my welder already have a 15 AMP circuit for lighting, buffer and all on a 150 ft. AWG 10/3 cable. Now I want to run another cable dedicated for my welder. Any idea? What about another 150 ft., AWG 10/3 cable?

Thanks!

Sam

Advertisement

samueltc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2009, 08:35 AM   #2
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South of Boston, MA
Posts: 17,248
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

electric setup for a welding machine


For a 50a circuit you will need #6 wires
I'm not aware of any way you can use #12 or #10 wire protected by a 50a breaker

Advertisement

Scuba_Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2009, 09:53 AM   #3
Household Handyman
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Albany, Ga.
Posts: 2,294
Rewards Points: 1,040
Default

electric setup for a welding machine


What type of welder are you planning on connecting to any circuit? There is a difference in the "start-up", or "pulse load" of different welders such as Arc welder, MIG welder, TIG welder, etc. One-hundred fifty feet is a long way to run a welder circuit-PERIOD! IMO. Unless it's a commercial application. It's beginning to sound as if you need a sub-panel at this location being as you already have some equipment there. One suggestion I will make to possibly relieve you of any headaches in the future: I put a new pigtail on my MIG welder along with matching receptacle that uses a 50 amp plug. Overkill I know, but I anticipated someone wanting to "borrow" this welder and I knew I did not want to lend it out. Now I just show them the pigtail and plug and they say "Never mind". David
Thurman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2009, 10:12 AM   #4
nap
You talking to me?
 
nap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: sw mi
Posts: 5,407
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

electric setup for a welding machine


Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuba_Dave View Post
For a 50a circuit you will need #6 wires
I'm not aware of any way you can use #12 or #10 wire protected by a 50a breaker
there are different and special rules for welders. Most here generally do not suggest following those rules in a residential situation because as you can see, it is possible to have wires that would normally be much too small on a breaker. If the home owner decides to use that circuit for something else, they have a real problem on their hands.

It is quite possible the materials posted would be proper for an installation for a welder. Without the specs of the machine, I could not tell you if they were for sure though.

Last edited by nap; 11-18-2009 at 10:15 AM.
nap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2009, 10:17 AM   #5
Master Electrician
 
Grimlock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: TX
Posts: 13
Rewards Points: 10
Default

electric setup for a welding machine


Quote:
Originally Posted by samueltc View Post
Hi,

I try to figure out how to do my electric setup for a new welding machine. In the manual, it say that I should go for a 50A circuit breaker and max 90 ft. cable (AWG 12/3).

The place I want to put my welder already have a 15 AMP circuit for lighting, buffer and all on a 150 ft. AWG 10/3 cable. Now I want to run another cable dedicated for my welder. Any idea? What about another 150 ft., AWG 10/3 cable?

Thanks!

Sam
12/3 on a 50A anything is against code.
Grimlock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2009, 10:27 AM   #6
nap
You talking to me?
 
nap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: sw mi
Posts: 5,407
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

electric setup for a welding machine


Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimlock View Post
12/3 on a 50A anything is against code.
well, real quickly, let's dispell that myth.

#12 THHN is rated for 30 amps (310.16). Then, take a real quick look at 630.12(B).

a welder's conductors will not have an OCPD of greater than 200% of the conductor ampacity so that means you could put a #12 THHN on a 60 amp breaker.

Without specs, I really didn't want to get into this but yes, you can put a #12 on a 50 amp breaker under certain circumstances.

and if you want to take it further, when configuring circuits for motors, you end up with some other very similar situations.
nap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2009, 10:59 AM   #7
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South of Boston, MA
Posts: 17,248
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

electric setup for a welding machine


Yup, I knew welders were different...didn't know that different
NEC Section 630 is what needs to be followed
Conductors/overcurrent not more then 300% of rating

I'd prefer a dedicated plug/receptacle that only the welder could plug into
I do know quite a few people that use welders to mae their own Christmas displays
Plus I imagine a lot of people use them -mechanics etc in their own garage
Scuba_Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2009, 11:13 AM   #8
nap
You talking to me?
 
nap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: sw mi
Posts: 5,407
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

electric setup for a welding machine


Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuba_Dave View Post
Yup, I knew welders were different...didn't know that different
NEC Section 630 is what needs to be followed
Conductors/overcurrent not more then 300% of rating

I'd prefer a dedicated plug/receptacle that only the welder could plug into
I do know quite a few people that use welders to mae their own Christmas displays
Plus I imagine a lot of people use them -mechanics etc in their own garage
but, as I stated previously, caution should be used. Many people that do not understand that a circuit that is ONLY for the welder could easily overload the conductors when you are allowed such over rating of OCPD to conductors can result in problems.
nap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2011, 03:19 AM   #9
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 2
Rewards Points: 10
Default

electric setup for a welding machine


regarding a welding input breaker and outlet setup, we have to consider the working current of the welding machine, let say the working current is 300amps, the 60amps breaker and #10wire will do on a 220v line, but using a 110v line is different always use double the ampacity of breaker, such that at least 120amps breaker and #5wire should be used, for maximum effort, meaning non-stop use,
the outlet should be a heavy duty 3 prong outlet and must be earth grounded.
the code is not always exact but preventive, so often if not always an overkill protection is observed, by desk engineers that measures electrical engineering works by formulas and calculators alone, can't blame them they do that in order not to get blamed by goverment. thin wire will be burned by high current and thick wire is expensive, so choose the safest wire to use. low amp breaker will cause tripping often, high amp breaker will not protect, so choose the nearest appropriate breaker for safe and smooth operation. be safe!!!
rommelramos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2011, 09:29 AM   #10
I=E/R
 
a7ecorsair's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,052
Rewards Points: 1,000
Default

electric setup for a welding machine


Quote:
Originally Posted by nap View Post
but, as I stated previously, caution should be used. Many people that do not understand that a circuit that is ONLY for the welder could easily overload the conductors when you are allowed such over rating of OCPD to conductors can result in problems.
This topic has come up a few times in the past and some have even mentioned that the circuit must be marked for welder only.
Does it make any difference if the welder is direct attached or cord and plug attached as to how it is wired?
I would think in a residential setting a NEMA 6-50 should be wired regardless of how it may be used, or shouldn't I be thinking?
a7ecorsair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2011, 11:18 AM   #11
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 2
Rewards Points: 10
Default

electric setup for a welding machine


Quote:
Originally Posted by a7ecorsair View Post
This topic has come up a few times in the past and some have even mentioned that the circuit must be marked for welder only.
Does it make any difference if the welder is direct attached or cord and plug attached as to how it is wired?
I would think in a residential setting a NEMA 6-50 should be wired regardless of how it may be used, or shouldn't I be thinking?
yes, there's a difference when the welding machine is rigged to the breaker or just plugged-in to a socket... nema is just a breaker retrofit box... the ampacity of the w.machine must be considered because a 100amps is different from a 300amps working current, if you plug a 300amp w.machine to a socket or outlet with low amp rating and used it to max.effort then the outlet will burn! if you're rich then use #6 wire which is expensive for just a welding hook-up purpose! not my money to waste anyway! be safe!!!
rommelramos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2011, 11:33 AM   #12
I=E/R
 
a7ecorsair's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,052
Rewards Points: 1,000
Default

electric setup for a welding machine


Quote:
Originally Posted by rommelramos View Post
yes, there's a difference when the welding machine is rigged to the breaker or just plugged-in to a socket... nema is just a breaker retrofit box... the ampacity of the w.machine must be considered because a 100amps is different from a 300amps working current, if you plug a 300amp w.machine to a socket or outlet with low amp rating and used it to max.effort then the outlet will burn! if you're rich then use #6 wire which is expensive for just a welding hook-up purpose! not my money to waste anyway! be safe!!!
Neither of your responses may a lot of sense. I'm looking for the NEC requirements.
a7ecorsair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2011, 01:05 PM   #13
Lic Electrical Inspector
 
electures's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: The Great Police State of New Jersey
Posts: 1,759
Rewards Points: 1,102
Default

electric setup for a welding machine


Quote:
Originally Posted by rommelramos View Post
regarding a welding input breaker and outlet setup, we have to consider the working current of the welding machine, let say the working current is 300amps, the 60amps breaker and #10wire will do on a 220v line, but using a 110v line is different always use double the ampacity of breaker, such that at least 120amps breaker and #5wire should be used, for maximum effort, meaning non-stop use,
the outlet should be a heavy duty 3 prong outlet and must be earth grounded.
the code is not always exact but preventive, so often if not always an overkill protection is observed, by desk engineers that measures electrical engineering works by formulas and calculators alone, can't blame them they do that in order not to get blamed by goverment. thin wire will be burned by high current and thick wire is expensive, so choose the safest wire to use. low amp breaker will cause tripping often, high amp breaker will not protect, so choose the nearest appropriate breaker for safe and smooth operation. be safe!!!
In order to size the OC device and conductors, the type of welder, rated primary current, and the duty cycle is needed. Without this information no accurate information can be provided.
__________________
All responses based on the 2011 NEC.
If you live in New Jersey click here. All other states click here.
Please check with local, county and state officials as laws may vary.
Sizing motors here. Online motor calculator here. Online calculators here.
electures is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2011, 01:35 PM   #14
Lic Electrical Inspector
 
electures's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: The Great Police State of New Jersey
Posts: 1,759
Rewards Points: 1,102
Default

electric setup for a welding machine


If it is anything like this Lincoln Electric welder then #10/2 romex on a 50A breaker. For extended distance use #8. This is according to the manual.
__________________
All responses based on the 2011 NEC.
If you live in New Jersey click here. All other states click here.
Please check with local, county and state officials as laws may vary.
Sizing motors here. Online motor calculator here. Online calculators here.
electures is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2011, 04:15 PM   #15
Member
 
Missouri Bound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Almost Arkansas
Posts: 2,764
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

electric setup for a welding machine


Samueltc...follow the mfg. recommendations. Your welder will be 150' away from the panel? Wow...quite a distance. If the mfg. allows #12 for a 90' run, they may want you to use #10 for a longer run. Do they have a phone number you can call for their input? It's not uncommon for the mfg. recommendation to be different that usual NEC code guidelines.

Advertisement

Missouri Bound is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
200 Amp or 400 Amp service Boontucky Electrical 37 07-24-2011 01:33 PM
Which welding machine to buy? spiral Tools 5 02-06-2009 12:49 AM
Wiring in new Miller 250DX welding machine Jammer Electrical 2 02-25-2006 04:28 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts