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Old 04-06-2014, 07:07 PM   #1
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electric conduit sizing


Hello
Can anyone tell me what size PVC electric conduit I will need with (4) 16 gauge conductors , (3) 6 gauge conductors and 1 # 8 ground. This is for a home standby generator I am installing- code states I can house the control wires and line wires in the same conduit as long as I use THHN 600 volt rated conductors. I think 1-1/2' will do but im not sure.

2nd question, the feeder to my meter pan is 2-1/2" plastic conduit- this goes directly through a KO on the bottom of the pan with a bushing on the end of the pipe. I will be placing a 2" plastic pipe nipple with a male adapter on each end- is this acceptable with a simple lock nut and bushing as well? I live in NJ. I am an electrician from NY- who is not used to working with plastic pipe, just moved to NJ


Any help would really be appreciated.

Egmech

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Old 04-06-2014, 07:29 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by egmech View Post
Hello
Can anyone tell me what size PVC electric conduit I will need with (4) 16 gauge conductors , (3) 6 gauge conductors and 1 # 8 ground. This is for a home standby generator I am installing- code states I can house the control wires and line wires in the same conduit as long as I use THHN 600 volt rated conductors. I think 1-1/2' will do but im not sure.

2nd question, the feeder to my meter pan is 2-1/2" plastic conduit- this goes directly through a KO on the bottom of the pan with a bushing on the end of the pipe. I will be placing a 2" plastic pipe nipple with a male adapter on each end- is this acceptable with a simple lock nut and bushing as well? I live in NJ. I am an electrician from NY- who is not used to working with plastic pipe, just moved to NJ


Any help would really be appreciated.

Egmech

Eh, most manufactures won't allow you to do this, I would install two conduits.

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Old 04-06-2014, 08:15 PM   #3
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er uh ... not true ...most of the time some nucklehead want to run thermostat wire in the same conduit as the thhn/thwn feeder .. if you use all the same type you are fine ...

generac uses a single conduit on their EAZY SWITCHES ..
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Last edited by Philly Master; 04-06-2014 at 08:17 PM.
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Old 04-06-2014, 08:17 PM   #4
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er uh ... not true ...
Sure...is that YOUR opinion?

Not every class 2 or 3 circuit can be re-classified as class 1. For example if you use a power supply that is class 2 or class 3 only then you cannot use chapter 1-4 wiring methods and re-classify as Class 1.


The other issue with running the communication lines in the same conduit with the other wires is it tends to send false signals to the controls and causing the units to fire up. This has been a problem for years even with the shield cables. Most manufactures instruct you to use two different conduits to avoid this.

Last edited by stickboy1375; 04-06-2014 at 08:34 PM.
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Old 04-06-2014, 08:38 PM   #5
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er uh ... not true ...most of the time some nucklehead want to run thermostat wire in the same conduit as the thhn/thwn feeder .. if you use all the same type you are fine ...

generac uses a single conduit on their EAZY SWITCHES ..
And that's all a code violation... just saying. The manufacture can do whatever they want, they don't abide by the NEC, We, as licensed electricians, have to.

You can't simply just reclassify class 2 & 3 circuits to a class 1 circuit... sorry.

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Old 04-07-2014, 06:49 AM   #6
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is this what u talkin about willis ??? this concept ...

http://ecmweb.com/cee-news-archive/c...s-same-conduit
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Old 04-07-2014, 07:04 AM   #7
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here is the new wire that generac had made for them ..

http://www.generacforum.com/showthread.php?p=17#post17
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Old 04-07-2014, 09:13 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by stickboy1375 View Post
And that's all a code violation... just saying. The manufacture can do whatever they want, they don't abide by the NEC, We, as licensed electricians, have to.

You can't simply just reclassify class 2 & 3 circuits to a class 1 circuit... sorry.
I don't believe that anyone is "reclassifying" the circuit. They are using THHN and treating it as a line voltage circuit. I do mostly B&S systems and it is all in one conduit. The generator feeders and four #14 THHN wires for control/battery.

The four wires are used as two pairs:

One pair feeds 240V power from the utility to the generator. This is used to trickle charge the battery and for the generator to know when to start (loss of voltage).

The second pair is from the generator control board and is simply a 5V dc signal that powers an LED status light in the house.

Neither of these circuits is vulnerable to EMI and I don't believe this install contains any code violations (the instructions do not prohibit this).

Mark
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Old 04-07-2014, 05:22 PM   #9
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Quote:
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I don't believe that anyone is "reclassifying" the circuit. They are using THHN and treating it as a line voltage circuit. I do mostly B&S systems and it is all in one conduit. The generator feeders and four #14 THHN wires for control/battery.

The four wires are used as two pairs:

One pair feeds 240V power from the utility to the generator. This is used to trickle charge the battery and for the generator to know when to start (loss of voltage).

The second pair is from the generator control board and is simply a 5V dc signal that powers an LED status light in the house.

Neither of these circuits is vulnerable to EMI and I don't believe this install contains any code violations (the instructions do not prohibit this).

Mark
What type of circuit is the remote start and monitoring?
Is it an Article 725 Class 1, Class 2, and Class 3 Remote-Control, Signaling, and Power-Limited Circuits? If so then there are seperation rules.
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Old 04-07-2014, 05:31 PM   #10
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What type of circuit is the remote start and monitoring?
Is it an Article 725 Class 1, Class 2, and Class 3 Remote-Control, Signaling, and Power-Limited Circuits? If so then there are seperation rules.
If I'm reading the code right, the rules of 725 are permissive rules that allow you to deviate from the Ch. 3 wiring methods if something classifies as a Power Limited Circuit. If you use a true Ch.3 wiring method as I'm suggesting for the entire circuit, then there is no need for the permissive rules and no need to pick a class of circuit or do any separation.

The "utility monitoring", what you are calling remote start also serves as a battery charging source and is 240V with a 3A fuse, so I don't think it qualifies as Power Limited.

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Old 04-07-2014, 05:33 PM   #11
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gonna do a little class reading...

If two manufactures say you can put the control and power in one conduit and the insulation is rated for it.. I don't see a problem..

But as you are stressing this point stickboy, somethings gotta be up. I will go do some reading...

Thank you for the kick in the butt.
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Old 04-07-2014, 07:28 PM   #12
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gonna do a little class reading...

If two manufactures say you can put the control and power in one conduit and the insulation is rated for it.. I don't see a problem..

But as you are stressing this point stickboy, somethings gotta be up. I will go do some reading...

Thank you for the kick in the butt.
I'm as curious as you bud... not saying I know all the answers, just want the correct one.
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Old 04-07-2014, 09:29 PM   #13
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Thanks for all of the input, I installed a 7 KW last year with an ATS with intergrated sub panel and used the whip that Generac sold with the unit, This whip which was factory wired shared both # 6 conductors and # 16 or 18 cant remember conductors- I had no issues. Can anyone provide PVC pipe size needed for (3) # 6 + (1) # 8 and (4) # 16 conductors?
1-1/2"????
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Old 04-07-2014, 11:10 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by egmech View Post
Hello
QUESTION #1)Can anyone tell me what size PVC electric conduit I will need with (4) 16 gauge conductors , (3) 6 gauge conductors and 1 # 8 ground. I think 1-1/2' will do but im not sure.

QUESTION #2)2nd question, the feeder to my meter pan is 2-1/2" plastic conduit- this goes directly through a KO on the bottom of the pan with a bushing on the end of the pipe. I will be placing a 2" plastic pipe nipple with a male adapter on each end- is this acceptable with a simple lock nut and bushing as well?
Any help would really be appreciated.

Egmech
Anyone....?????????

(Sorry, I don't know.... just interested in your question)

Good luck getting an answer and with your issue.
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Old 04-08-2014, 06:10 AM   #15
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electric conduit sizing


Quote:
Originally Posted by egmech View Post
Hello
Can anyone tell me what size PVC electric conduit I will need with (4) 16 gauge conductors , (3) 6 gauge conductors and 1 # 8 ground. This is for a home standby generator I am installing- code states I can house the control wires and line wires in the same conduit as long as I use THHN 600 volt rated conductors. I think 1-1/2' will do but im not sure.

2nd question, the feeder to my meter pan is 2-1/2" plastic conduit- this goes directly through a KO on the bottom of the pan with a bushing on the end of the pipe. I will be placing a 2" plastic pipe nipple with a male adapter on each end- is this acceptable with a simple lock nut and bushing as well? I live in NJ. I am an electrician from NY- who is not used to working with plastic pipe, just moved to NJ


Any help would really be appreciated.

Egmech


#1 1 1/2" is fine

#2 Yes

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