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 garyjackel1 12-21-2011 03:46 PM

electric baseboard heaters

i'm looking to install a couple of electric baseboard heaters in my home there 240v 4800w on a 100a service here is my question what size conductor and breaker i did some home work and found two different ways with two different answers thanks gary

 darren 12-21-2011 04:22 PM

Amps=Power/Voltage

4800/240=20A

In Canada that would have to go on a 30A breaker, I beleive it is the same in the USA, someone should be by that can let us know if I am correct on that.

 garyjackel1 12-21-2011 06:10 PM

electric baseboard heater

that was one of the ways i did it and came up with the same answer 20a breaker and 12/2 but what about the appliance overcurrent protection section 422.11 (E) (3) 150% 20a x 1.5 = 30a so then this would now be a 30a breaker with 10/2 unless i'm reading this wrong ???

 kbsparky 12-21-2011 06:40 PM

You would need at least a 25 Amp circuit to feed such a load. Electric heat is considered a continuous load.

Oh, and BTW, the pertinent section of the Code is article 424, not 422.

 Speedy Petey 12-21-2011 06:42 PM

Quote:
 Originally Posted by garyjackel1 (Post 799737) that was one of the ways i did it and came up with the same answer 20a breaker and 12/2 but what about the appliance overcurrent protection section 422.11 (E) (3) 150% 20a x 1.5 = 30a so then this would now be a 30a breaker with 10/2 unless i'm reading this wrong ???

B) 422.11 does NOT apply. You need Art. 424.

 garyjackel1 12-22-2011 10:07 AM

electric baseboard heater

ok so back to my original question what size conductor and breaker would i need for the electric baseboard heaters 240v 4800w

 carmusic 12-22-2011 12:11 PM

10/2 on a 25 or 30A breaker to be code compliant but it would work perfectly with 12ga on 20 amp breaker in real life, unless heater will runs for more than 3 hours consecutive

 joed 12-22-2011 12:18 PM

That is a 20 amp load. No way it should be put on a 20 amp breaker.
Use 10/2 cable and a 30 amp breaker.

 carmusic 12-22-2011 12:50 PM

Quote:
 Originally Posted by joed (Post 800427) That is a 20 amp load. No way it should be put on a 20 amp breaker. Use 10/2 cable and a 30 amp breaker.
remember that it is not only one heater, it is multiple heaters (will they run simultaneously for long periods??) and a 20 amp breaker can handle 20 amp and should never trip but by code he need 25 or 30 amp

 Speedy Petey 12-22-2011 02:47 PM

Quote:
 Originally Posted by carmusic (Post 800417) 10/2 on a 25 or 30A breaker to be code compliant but it would work perfectly with 12ga on 20 amp breaker in real life, unless heater will runs for more than 3 hours consecutive
The 3 hours does NOT figure into this application.
By code fixed electric heat must ALWAYS be considered a continuous load.

10/2 on a 25 or 30. Period.

 garyjackel1 12-22-2011 04:14 PM

electric baseboard heater

now you can understand why i was getting concerned about witch article is correct it's 10/2 30a double pole correct ??

 kwilcox 12-22-2011 05:17 PM

Not to take you off topic, but have you considered a mini-split heat pump instead of baseboard electric? Much more efficient in most areas.

 garyjackel1 12-22-2011 05:44 PM

electric baseboard heater

i don't know that much about heat pumps and i already have the electric baseboard heater thanks anyway

 Missouri Bound 12-22-2011 07:47 PM

Quote:
 Originally Posted by kwilcox (Post 800636) Not to take you off topic, but have you considered a mini-split heat pump instead of baseboard electric? Much more efficient in most areas.
Efficiency is wonderful. Have you ever compared the cost between the two?:detective: Not exactly comparing apples to apples.

 kwilcox 12-23-2011 09:52 AM

Well, 4800 watts produces about 16400 BTU. At .13/KWH that costs about .62/hr. Averaging this for a day would be about \$7.50 (given 12 hours on). This increases your electric bill by \$223/mo during heating season.

By comparison, a YMGI 18K BTU mini split delivers minimum of 14,500 BTU at 5 degrees F (16,400 BTU at 15F) and is \$1400 delivered from breezone.

http://www.breezzone.com/category.ph...y=61&list_id=1

Installation by a professional HVAC installer including electrical would cost no more than \$500. For mine, I did the electrical myself and got my local HVAC guy to run line sets, evacuate and pressurize for \$100 as a side job.

Anyway, this unit draws 2500Watts max with an average of 1600 due to the inverter technology it employs.

Sooo... given the same parameters:

2000 watts average at .13/KWH costs .26/hr or \$3.12/day or about \$94/mo, a savings of \$129/mo.

Given the difference in initial investment is about \$1500 (those baseboards + wiring gotta cost about \$400) then payback is about 12 heating months. Note that this doesn't take into account the energy tax credit on the investment due to the YMGI Energy Star rating.

Figure 5 years as a conservative and reasonable payback guesstimate provided electric rates don't change. Probably closer to 3 when you figure in the energy credit write off.

Increase in rates will skew this downward dramatically.

Keep in mind that this HVAC strategy reduces cooling costs in summer as well. I haven't even started to figure that into this quick comparison. My 9K BTU YMGI minisplit saved me money in summer as well because at 22 SEER, it is way more efficient than my central air unit. My main unit ran noticeably less last summer.

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