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11-04-2009, 01:52 PM   #16
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I pay around \$0.22/kW also.

As mentioned, electric heating is nearly 100% efficient but that's only at your house. When you factor things like only 40% of the coal they burn is converted into electricity and there's a 7-8% line loss... really only 33% or so gets to your house but you have to pay for 100% of the fuel. Electricity is expensive!

This makes me question why geoexchange (or geothermal) is supposedly the big green thing. I calculated a gallon of oil at \$1.89 (this was a few months back) burned in my house will net 40.7kW. That same 40.7kW from my power company costs me \$8.96.

Geothermal advertises it's 300-400% efficient. Anyone see the problem using something whose fuel costs 500% more and only getting 300-400% efficiency? I calculated my house needs 28,500kW to heat and with geothermal at 350% efficienty would cost me \$1,800/year in electricity to heat as well as my oil that was costing me \$1,300 (when it was \$1.89/gallon)/year. I would've been in for a real shock. I don't know why there's incentives and such for doing geothermal... not with it using fuel that costs 400-500% more and where most of that electricity comes from. It's better than just electric baseboards but things aren't adding up to justify its savings, incentives, and greeness label IMHO.

Last edited by Piedmont; 11-04-2009 at 02:09 PM.

11-04-2009, 08:39 PM   #17
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Quote:
 Originally Posted by Yoyizit 0.71 gal of fuel oil = 100 cubic feet of natural gas = 29 kwh of elec heat = 8.4 kwh of heat pump heat (COP = 3.5) = 4.2 kwh of heat pump heat (COP = 6.9),
Man, o' man! the way you have with figuring out all these stats. Hopefully, we can store them and retrieve when needed. I love to play with numbers, too. But I wouldn't have the patience to go through all these minutiae. I like to enjoy the finished product! (No matter what) don't drink and Drive, Ever!!!
(And let's give those smilies a well-deserved rest)!

11-04-2009, 08:59 PM   #18
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Quote:
 Originally Posted by spark plug Man, o' man! the way you have with figuring out all these stats. Hopefully, we can store them and retrieve when needed. I love to play with numbers, too. But I wouldn't have the patience to go through all these minutiae. I like to enjoy the finished product! (No matter what) don't drink and Drive, Ever!!! (And let's give those smilies a well-deserved rest)!
This one [heat value, heat of combustion] comes up a lot. Here's the whole file.

1 Therm of energy can be had from approx. 0.71 gal of fuel oil, 0.77 gal of gasoline, 100 cubic feet of natural gas, 1.1 gal of propane, 29 kwh of elec heat, 8.4 kwh of heat pump heat (COP = 3.5), 4.2 kwh of heat pump heat (COP = 6.9), 14 pounds of wood, sunlight falling (insolation) on 5 sq. meters of absorbent surface for one day in CA or 14,000 gal/min of water falling 10' for one hour.
You could also use 12 billionths of a pound of radioactive material decaying. Or 0.0001 of a lightning bolt.

Last edited by Yoyizit; 11-04-2009 at 09:03 PM.

11-04-2009, 09:48 PM   #19
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Quote:
 Originally Posted by Yoyizit This one [heat value, heat of combustion] comes up a lot. Here's the whole file. 1 Therm of energy can be had from approx. 0.71 gal of fuel oil, 0.77 gal of gasoline, 100 cubic feet of natural gas, 1.1 gal of propane, 29 kwh of elec heat, 8.4 kwh of heat pump heat (COP = 3.5), 4.2 kwh of heat pump heat (COP = 6.9), 14 pounds of wood, sunlight falling (insolation) on 5 sq. meters of absorbent surface for one day in CA or 14,000 gal/min of water falling 10' for one hour. You could also use 12 billionths of a pound of radioactive material decaying. Or 0.0001 of a lightning bolt.
Interesting stuff. Thanx.

 11-05-2009, 07:33 PM #20 Member   Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 233 Rewards Points: 150 well maybe i should just put another small furnace in the attic and heat the upstairs with ceiling diffusers. im gonna use your conversions to try and estimate how much more it would cost to heat with electric.
11-05-2009, 07:39 PM   #21
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Quote:
 Originally Posted by Yoyizit 0.71 gal of fuel oil = 100 cubic feet of natural gas = 29 kwh of elec heat = 8.4 kwh of heat pump heat (COP = 3.5) = 4.2 kwh of heat pump heat (COP = 6.9),
if electric is 100% efficient than we know the 29kwh will all be converted to heat. but the statement 100 cubic feet of natural gas=29kwh electric heat would be dependant on the efficiency of the furnace right? the amount of energy contained in 100 cuft. of gas does not all get converted to heat in your house.

11-05-2009, 08:12 PM   #22
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Quote:
 Originally Posted by drewhart if electric is 100% efficient than we know the 29kwh will all be converted to heat. but the statement 100 cubic feet of natural gas=29kwh electric heat would be dependant on the efficiency of the furnace right? the amount of energy contained in 100 cuft. of gas does not all get converted to heat in your house.
Yes, I'll correct the file.

To get two therms of energy from an 80% efficient appliance would require 200(100%/80%) = 250 cu. ft., and depending on the duty cycle of the appliance the efficiency can be pretty low.

Last edited by Yoyizit; 11-05-2009 at 08:18 PM.

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