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-   -   elec wire is too short (http://www.diychatroom.com/f18/elec-wire-too-short-69425/)

gary h 04-19-2010 11:26 PM

elec wire is too short
 
I cut a doorway opening into a room. There are 3- 14/2 romex cables going down to 2 outlets. The outlets must move about 3 ft. House is 2 story and this wall is in the middle. There is no way to pull new wire and the old is to short. Is there any legal way to extend these "without a j-box"?

acerunner 04-19-2010 11:31 PM

unfortunately, no. all connections must be in a j-box that is accessible.

kbsparky 04-20-2010 01:22 AM

Try this product. Box not required:http://www.tycoelectronics.com/catal...o/n5gi030a.jpg

acerunner 04-20-2010 03:47 AM

hmm, interesting. There are planty products that can connect two wires, but question is, is that approved by code to be used in-wall without accessibilty? Might have to check with local inspector. In my book, no connector is 100% fail-proof, so having it accessible would be a good idea even if approved.

bobelectric 04-20-2010 04:21 AM

I know ksparty would not recommend a sham.

acerunner 04-20-2010 04:32 AM

oh, i don't doubt his expertise. I'm just curious if its something thats acceptable by national code, or if its just something accepted by his local inspector. If it is accepted in NEC, i will have to keep this in mind for the future if i need to fix electricals.

Jim Port 04-20-2010 07:15 AM

You could also add additional receptacles on each side of the door frame and use those boxes to make the cable extension. Are all these cables serving the room they are in or are they just running thru?

AllanJ 04-20-2010 08:06 AM

A splice where the wires are twisted to not pull apart plus bonded with solder is the most reliable splice you can have.

But the only commonplace use of such a splice in home wiring goes back to the 1930's -- knob and tube wiring! (Not all K&T electricians soldered their connections.)

A cursory look at some of the accessories picture above suggests they are constructed similarly to backstabbed connections on receptacles and switches.

Not needing a j-box (as advertised for the above pictured accessories) does not equate to not needing accessibility.

HooKooDooKu 04-20-2010 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllanJ (Post 430970)
Not needing a j-box (as advertised for the above pictured accessories) does not equate to not needing accessibility.

I find it interesting that they claim "[these connectors] eliminate the need for junction boxes, covers, wire nuts, and box connectors", but the electrical codes they site is for things like manufactured homes and recreational vehicles. They make no mention about sections that indicate j-boexs are required.

secutanudu 04-20-2010 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbsparky (Post 430918)
Try this product. Box not required:

Wow, that may be a lifesaver for me. Cut wire by accident in the wall, see my other thread.

Any idea where to get them, and if inspectors would normally accept it in an inaccessible location?

Edit: looks like the website has listings of where to buy it.

HooKooDooKu 04-20-2010 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbsparky (Post 430918)
Try this product. Box not required:

I did a little bit more digging, and from what I've seen, these don't sound like the "magic bullet" it sounds to be.

For one, this isn't a brand new type of device. So of the documentation on the products at the tyco site is dated 19-Oct-2000. So if this product was a "magic bullet" for all those times people have wanted a burried splice in electrical forums, I would have thought that we would have heard about them by now. But prior to today, the only place I've ever seen references to splices not requiring a box was buried (under ground) applications.

Second, the documentaion doesn't appear to indicate that this product is ment for use in single family dwellings. Here's a quote from the product documentation:

<Start Quote>

3.2 Applications
These devices are Underwriters Laboratories Inc. (UL) Listed to U.S. and Canadian safety standards under UL File E57250 for use in manufactured buildings in accordance with 1999 NAtional Electrical Code (NEC) Article 545-13 (Component Interconnections); mobile homes, manufactured homes, and mobile home parks NEC Article 550-10(k) (Wireing Methods and Materials and Component Interconnections); and recreational vehicles and recreational vehicle parks NEC Article 551-47(o) (Wireing Methods and Component Interconnections). The equivalent NEC Articles can be found in the Canadian Electrical Code, Part 1, Section 70, for use in factory built relocatable structures and non-relocatable structures.

The Type NM-1 splicing device is also used with the Type NM-3 T-Tap device (UL listed E57250). This combination (NM-1 and NM-3) is suitable for surface mounting without an outlet boxin exposed cable wiring and in existing buildings/dwellings where the cable is installed in accordance with and as permitted by Article 336-21 (Nonmetalllic Sheathed Cable and Devices of Insulating Material - 1999 National Electrical Code) and the Canadian Electrical Code, Part 1, Section 12-522.

<End Quote>

Now I don't have access to 1999 NEC at the moment, but from everything I've read so far, it doesn't sound like these devices can be used for splices behind drywall in a single family (or similar) dwelling.

The only thing I can't look up at the moment is if 336-21 from NEC 1999 has anything applicable to indcate otherwise.

secutanudu 04-20-2010 11:04 AM

I am going to call my inspector tonight to see if he would approve this in my house. I'll post back with his answer. Not that his answer would apply to everyone, but it's a start.

md2lgyk 04-20-2010 11:29 AM

I looked into using these Tyco splices when I was wiring my house. I don't have the paperwork handy but they are certainly approved for single-family residential applications. I ended up not using them because they're insanely expensive.

secutanudu 04-20-2010 11:43 AM

Yes, $8 each. Totally worth it for a one-time use, though you have to spend $35 from the website if you order online.

HooKooDooKu 04-20-2010 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by md2lgyk (Post 431042)
I ended up not using them because they're insanely expensive.

Based on the web site linked above, I randomly followed the links to purchase one of these items (don't recall which). They were about $8 a piece, but they had a $35 minimum. Then there was the shipping and handling. Couldn't find a link to indicate what the charges would be, but following the check-out process, they don't tell you until AFTER you submit CC#.

So I'm guessing that someone wanting to use these would be looking at around $50 minimum to place an order... unless there is somewhere else to buy.


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