Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 10-03-2008, 12:10 AM   #16
Registered User
 
Termite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 6,520
Share |
Default

Dumb question, how do you twist your wires together?


Wago wal-nuts (or the Ideal ones) are really great. I'm the last guy who'll ever use the stabs on the back of a device, and these do work under the same basic principal. Strip the wires, stick them in, nothing to tighten. I saw so many electricians using them I finally got a handful and tried them, and lost my skepticism. They are especially great in lieu of a big blue wire nut, as mentioned. They make a clean nifty looking installation too.

I've installed a number of devices in my house with them, and especially recommend them to DIYers tackling their own device and fixture replacements.

For DIYers, Ideal makes an assortment pack of all the different sizes for 2, 3, 4, 6, and 8 wires. They're color coded too. You can get them at box stores.

They're more money than wire nuts are, so aren't necessarily something I use on every job in large quantity. I still like good old wire nuts for about 75% of my connections. But for tough installations, short wires, or big bundles of wires, I keep a handful in the bag.

Termite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2008, 10:08 AM   #17
Contractor - Renovations
 
fungku's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 260
Default

Dumb question, how do you twist your wires together?


All I know is that when I'm using multiple wires (3+), when not twisting the "pull test" is passed around 98% of the time. If I twist the wires the "pull test" passes 100% of the time.
fungku is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2008, 11:51 AM   #18
DIY'er
 
jamiedolan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Neenah, Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 2,032
Blog Entries: 2
Default

Dumb question, how do you twist your wires together?


As for twisting, I like to twist because that's just how I learned to do it. Twisting alone isn't adequate, you must have a mechanical connection. I always twist the wires, trim the end a little, and crank down the wire nut. Pretty hard to twist anything without linesmans pliers.

I agree, this is exactly what I do. I was thinking of switching to those wire nuts that you crimp on, because honestly once the wires are twisted together and I trim the end, it really isn't ever going to be safe to take that nut off and add to it, they really need to be cut and re-striped. The non-removable wire nuts seem like a good idea..

Jamie

Last edited by jamiedolan; 10-03-2008 at 11:54 AM. Reason: Didn't really all the posts first and question was answered.
jamiedolan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2008, 12:49 PM   #19
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Canada (s/w ON.)
Posts: 2,294
Default

Dumb question, how do you twist your wires together?


Quote:
Originally Posted by thekctermite View Post
Wago wal-nuts (or the Ideal ones) are really great. I'm the last guy who'll ever use the stabs on the back of a device, and these do work under the same basic principal. Strip the wires, stick them in, nothing to tighten. I saw so many electricians using them I finally got a handful and tried them, and lost my skepticism. They are especially great in lieu of a big blue wire nut, as mentioned. They make a clean nifty looking installation too.

I've installed a number of devices in my house with them, and especially recommend them to DIYers tackling their own device and fixture replacements.

For DIYers, Ideal makes an assortment pack of all the different sizes for 2, 3, 4, 6, and 8 wires. They're color coded too. You can get them at box stores.

They're more money than wire nuts are, so aren't necessarily something I use on every job in large quantity. I still like good old wire nuts for about 75% of my connections. But for tough installations, short wires, or big bundles of wires, I keep a handful in the bag.
I'm unfamiliar with these. Out of the loop I suppose.
Can the conductors be released individually? This would be real convienient.
I remember when crimp connectors were popular in the 70's and would cringe when I had to open connections for fault clearing!
The conductors seemed to get shorter and shorter!
Wildie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2008, 02:46 PM   #20
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,503
Default

Dumb question, how do you twist your wires together?


Quote:
Originally Posted by HouseHelper View Post
They are great in those applications where wires are too short, or you want to connect 6-8 wires together without using a big blue wirenut.
Connect 6-8 wires together, Househelper, I know you plan better than that.
J. V. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2008, 02:56 PM   #21
Licensed Pro
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: SC
Posts: 1,529
Default

Dumb question, how do you twist your wires together?


Quote:
Originally Posted by J. V. View Post
Connect 6-8 wires together, Househelper, I know you plan better than that.
I plan better than that, but in remodel work, you find others have not planned as well. The simple solution often requires doing things in creative ways (but always code compliant).
__________________
"Life is hard. Life is harder when you're stupid." John Wayne
HouseHelper is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2008, 03:47 PM   #22
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,294
Default

Dumb question, how do you twist your wires together?


Most electricians only twist in certain conditions. New wire doesn't require twisting. Wire nuts can't fall off if installed correctly (tight).

It is tricky and a pain in the ass to twist. You have to alternately tighten and loosen your grip on the wires as you twist.
220/221 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2008, 03:57 PM   #23
Res Ipsa Loquitur
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Southeastern PA
Posts: 363
Default

Dumb question, how do you twist your wires together?


Quote:
Originally Posted by 220/221 View Post
Most electricians only twist in certain conditions. New wire doesn't require twisting. Wire nuts can't fall off if installed correctly (tight).

It is tricky and a pain in the ass to twist. You have to alternately tighten and loosen your grip on the wires as you twist.
Agreed! It is so much easier to hold 3-4 wires parallel then place the wire nut tightly over the ends.
__________________
Did you ever stop to think, then forget to start again?
handyman78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2008, 07:10 PM   #24
Licensed Electrical Cont.
 
Speedy Petey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NY State
Posts: 6,778
Default

Dumb question, how do you twist your wires together?


Quote:
Originally Posted by 220/221 View Post
It is tricky and a pain in the ass to twist. You have to alternately tighten and loosen your grip on the wires as you twist.
SO.

At the risk of prolonging this tired debate, the above is only true of you make it so.
I do NOT find twisting even 6 or 7 wires "tricky" at all. Then again, I do this every day for a living. I would not assume the same for a DIY'er.

I'll reiterate my stance. The end result should be the same.
The wire should look the same if the nut is removed. Either you do the twisting before, or do it with the wire nut on.

If I remove a wire nut, and the wires are all still straight, I'm coming to find you and make you eat the wire nut!

(The "you" is rhetorical.)
__________________
Sometimes I feel like if I answer any more questions it is like someone trying to climb over a fence to jump off a bridge and me giving them a boost.
Answers based on the 2008 & 2011 NEC. If you're on the '14 already I feel sorry for you.
Speedy Petey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2008, 07:42 PM   #25
the Musigician
 
DangerMouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: I'm right here!
Posts: 10,404
Default

Dumb question, how do you twist your wires together?


i'm with you pete. but ya gotta make them eat the wires too, i hear they have more fibre than just eating the nuts....simply amazed how far this thread has gone.... i twist, snip and screw then tape. how simple is that?

DM
DangerMouse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2008, 12:46 AM   #26
My License Ain't 4 Sale..
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Atlanta, Ga/Hamilton, Al
Posts: 1,813
Default

Dumb question, how do you twist your wires together?


It seems like this old dead horse won't die. It pops up time and again on countless forums and I myself have been involved with several hot debates on the actual jobsite about this very subject.

If I were asked (I have not been) to make a decision once and for all, I would make it a code requirement to twist the wires when using the type of connectors we call wirenuts. This isn't a preference based on some nostalgic bent like "that's how I was taught to do it". No. I have seen way too many taps (as electricians call them) that pop open when you untwist the wirenut. I call them "flowers" because they blossom. And these are taps made by so-called "journeymen electricians". Fact is, it takes no more effort to twist the conductors with your kleins than it does to crank a wirenut down tight enough to be effective. In fact, it probably takes more effort to twist a wirenut that tight due to the short radius of the "lever arm". Your kleins have a larger radius, and thus can develop more torque with less effort.

A quick story: When you are a young foreman on a job, and your crew consists of guys who are often older than you, you have a hard enough job. So when I mandated to my guys that we twist our wires first, oh well, here come the whines and protests and assurances from a few that they had never had a problem before and it was perfectly fine the way they did it. It all started when I opened a j-box to add a circuit. What I found was a melted mass of plastic. Keep in mind this was a new job
, power hadn't been on that circuit for long. I was a little perturbed. I started cleaning the mess out and discovered that not a single wire was enough to make a good connection. Just snugging the wirenut means that the current must flow through a small contact area and the spring in the nut itself. In fact the wires were arcing as I was removing the cover from the box. I started checking up on my journeymens' taps. That really pissed them off. I found that better than 50% were not up to snuff.

So I laid down the law. Most fell into line. But this one guy, right around my age and thinking he should be where I am, but not talented enough to hold my jock strap, takes it as his personal mission to do directly opposite of everything I said. Unless I was watching. I crept up on him one day while he was about to make up a switch box, and caught him just snugging his wirenuts on. I told him pull it out and redo it. He refused. I pulled the wires out and started to show him how I want it. He snatches my kleins away. Oh hell.

It ended with "get your f****** tools and get in your f****** truck and don't ever come to this MFing job again"
InPhase277 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2008, 05:51 AM   #27
the Musigician
 
DangerMouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: I'm right here!
Posts: 10,404
Default

Dumb question, how do you twist your wires together?


"Just snugging the wirenut means that the current must flow through a small contact area and the spring in the nut itself." bingo.
can it die now?

DM
DangerMouse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2010, 02:46 PM   #28
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 43
Default

Dumb question, how do you twist your wires together?


I have been reading through this thead from a few years ago trying to figure out how to twist wires together.

On all of these forums the same thing happens, everyone starts to debate whether wires should be twisted or not.

I have the same question as the person that started the thread, how do you successfully twist wires together? I don't want to debate if you should or not, but the best technique to get the best result.

Any help would be great.
dw1256
dw1256 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2010, 02:53 PM   #29
Master Electrician
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Indiana
Posts: 2,782
Default

Dumb question, how do you twist your wires together?


Linemen's pliers, turning in a clockwise direction. It is a technique that requires practice.
brric is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2010, 02:56 PM   #30
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 43
Default

Dumb question, how do you twist your wires together?


Here is my issue in a little more detail. Let's say I am twisting 4 #12 wires together. As I twist, the two outer wires start to point in an outwards direction and I can't seem to bring them all back together.

Does that make sense?
dw1256

dw1256 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Dumb Siding question 1610 CUB Building & Construction 4 08-23-2008 04:08 PM
Heil DC90 - AC Wires keithshank HVAC 1 07-31-2008 08:37 PM
replacing outlet with 3 white/3 black wires gpet573 Electrical 4 06-03-2008 02:55 PM
Two black wires with one white! Please help! ibs325 Electrical 15 11-18-2007 09:38 PM
Another Dumb question - Self grounding outlets robertmee Electrical 9 10-25-2007 01:49 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.