Forums | Home Repair | Home Improvement | Painting | Interior Decorating | Remodeling | Landscaping


Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 04-11-2013, 12:05 PM   #1
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 80
Share |
Default

Dual Voltage Combination Outlet


I must apologize if this has topic has been addressed before.

I am working on a home for rental. The open-concept living room - dinning room area is pushing 700 sq ft. The house does not have central air, and I want to install a dedicated outlet for a large room air conditioner. In the past, I have used the Hubbell 5492 or similar Leviton 5844 receptacle. This is a combination outlet, providing a 20 amp 110 volt outlet on one side, and a 20 amp 220 volt outlet on the other of a single outlet strap. The tenant who wants to install a window air conditioner simply plugs the unit into whichever outlet is appropriate. This lets the tenant use either a 15 amp 110 volt AC, a 20 amp 110 volt AC, a 15 amp 220 volt AC or a 20 amp 220 volt AC. In the past I installed these a 12-3 romex cable with a single 220 volt breaker, and the white neutral only being used on the 110 volt side.

The building inspector flagged this in approval drawings. At first he claimed that no such outlet existed. Then he said they were no longer made or available. Then he said they are "now" illegal, except for commercial installations and that it was illegal to wire them using romex! He also claims that since a tenant could possibly use the outlet for both a 220 volt air conditioner and at the same time other 110 volt loads, that the outlet could not be used since it must be a single separate outlet since the load is a "stationary" load (window air conditioner). He also stated that use of both sides would also cause an imbalance in the breaker which could cause it to fail to trip since some 220 volt breakers are only monitored on one leg of the power!

He suggested that I simply install two outlets at the window air conditioner location -- one for 110 volt, one for 220 volt. I agreed to this, since he obviously would continue to be critical of the combination unit, and I wanted to get things done.

I have tried to address the issue with Hubbell customer service, who says simply that they still make and sell the unit, and that application must meet local codes and local code interpretations.

My question simply is are these outlets still permitted under the current NEC.
Perry401 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2013, 12:23 PM   #2
Semi-Pro Electro-Geek
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Arizona, USA
Posts: 2,446
Default

Dual Voltage Combination Outlet


Your inspector is an idiot. His BS about the "imbalance" on a 2P breaker proves it. All 2P breakers trip both poles on overcurrent on EITHER pole. Make him cite the specific code violations if he has a problem. He can't. If he makes something up, appeal to his supervisor.
__________________
I am a lawyer, but not your lawyer. And who cares anyways? We're here to talk construction. This is DIY advice, not legal advice.
mpoulton is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to mpoulton For This Useful Post:
frenchelectrican (04-11-2013), micromind (04-11-2013), Speedy Petey (04-12-2013), Techy (04-12-2013)
Old 04-11-2013, 09:11 PM   #3
Idiot Emeritus
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Fernley, Nevada (near Reno)
Posts: 1,494
Default

Dual Voltage Combination Outlet


Quote:
Originally Posted by mpoulton View Post
Your inspector is an idiot. His BS about the "imbalance" on a 2P breaker proves it. All 2P breakers trip both poles on overcurrent on EITHER pole. Make him cite the specific code violations if he has a problem. He can't. If he makes something up, appeal to his supervisor.
I agree. he doesn't know what he is talking about, and doesn't understand anything about multiwire branch circuits.

210.4(B) seems to support the use of dual-voltage outlets. "Where a multiwire branch circuit supplies more than one device or equipment on the same yoke, a means shall be provided to disconnect simultaneously all ungrounded conductors supplying those devices or equipment at the point of origin."

A dual-voltage outlet is indeed more than one device on the same yoke.

I have about a dozen or so of these outlets in my garage. I had to explain this code section to the inspector, but he understood and passed the installation.

Rob
micromind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2013, 09:22 PM   #4
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 5
Default

Dual Voltage Combination Outlet


I would be more concerned with a homeowner wiring a rental unit. Usually the home owner permits are only issued to owner occupied buildings.
That being said it seems as though you have your t's crossed. And your ducks dotted.
goalie29 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to goalie29 For This Useful Post:
micromind (04-11-2013)
Old 04-11-2013, 10:47 PM   #5
Idiot Emeritus
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Fernley, Nevada (near Reno)
Posts: 1,494
Default

Dual Voltage Combination Outlet


Quote:
Originally Posted by goalie29 View Post
I would be more concerned with a homeowner wiring a rental unit. Usually the home owner permits are only issued to owner occupied buildings.
That being said it seems as though you have your t's crossed. And your ducks dotted.
I agree, anyone who knows how to connect a dual-voltage outlet (or even knows that such a thing exists.....) is quite likely better than most.
micromind is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to micromind For This Useful Post:
Speedy Petey (04-12-2013)
Old 04-11-2013, 11:03 PM   #6
" Euro " electrician
 
frenchelectrican's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: WI & France { in France for now }
Posts: 5,369
Default

Dual Voltage Combination Outlet


Quote:
Originally Posted by micromind View Post
I agree, anyone who knows how to connect a dual-voltage outlet (or even knows that such a thing exists.....) is quite likely better than most.
Very few DIY's can understand the set up of dual voltage repectale.

Now for the OP part., The inspector is not really undestand the set up at all and it been pretty common for long time and as far for the two pole breaker that is perfect for this set up. ( you can see why they discourage with fuse on this one )

Even over here we do have dual voltage receptale but not used very often due the voltage level is much higher than you guys have in state side.

Merci,
Marc
__________________
The answer will be based on NEC ( National Electrical code ) or CEC ( Cananda Electrical code ) or ECF ( Electrique Code France )
frenchelectrican is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2013, 05:34 AM   #7
Licensed Electrical Cont.
 
Speedy Petey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NY State
Posts: 6,674
Default

Dual Voltage Combination Outlet


Quote:
Originally Posted by mpoulton View Post
Your inspector is an idiot. His BS about the "imbalance" on a 2P breaker proves it. All 2P breakers trip both poles on overcurrent on EITHER pole. Make him cite the specific code violations if he has a problem. He can't. If he makes something up, appeal to his supervisor.
COMPLETELY agree. So much so in fact that I honestly do feel this guy should be reported to the higher ups. What he is saying proves he is not qualified for his job, and in that job that is not a good thing.
__________________
Sometimes I feel like if I answer any more questions it is like someone trying to climb over a fence to jump off a bridge and me giving them a boost.
Answers based on the 2008 & 2011 NEC. If you're on the '14 already I feel sorry for you.
Speedy Petey is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Speedy Petey For This Useful Post:
frenchelectrican (04-12-2013), mpoulton (04-12-2013)
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Dual voltage 370/440 capacitor ? sh1633 HVAC 3 06-18-2012 05:56 PM
Bathroom GFCI Outlet trouble RyG1357 Electrical 3 08-20-2011 03:40 PM
Combination switch and outlet 44070dart Electrical 4 05-03-2010 07:00 PM
Adding new ceiling light in place of switched outlet XavierG35 Electrical 2 02-13-2008 09:05 PM
European 220V outlet "Schuko" estophile Electrical 6 08-27-2005 08:45 AM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.